Since 2012 I have used many different oils in my 12 Nissan Pathfinder VQ40DE V6 and something interesting I have noticed is the difference in start up noise. The VQ40 V6 is not the quietest motor on start up you can usually make out some timing chain noise on start as the big chain rides on the chain guides. But I have noticed a significant difference in the oil that I use. Mobil 1 seems to make the most noise in any grade 5,10/30 or 0w40. Followed by Castrol full synthetic (black bottle) 5w30 then the 0w40 grade yet quieter still is Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w30. By far the quietest and smoothest oil I have used is also the cheapest I have run Formula Shell 10w40 I get no start up noise at all. What does it all mean? I have no idea! I am going to do a UOA on the Shell 10w40 though just for kicks!
Oil and noise
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It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts. Noise means impact. Quiet means parts sliding past each other.
Choice is yours, but I take quiet every time I can get it
Choice is yours, but I take quiet every time I can get it
Explain another mechanism please?
The Magnatec may have had some influence on the Shell oil fill. It was mentioned in another thread in the past that the Magnatecs's clingy oil film properties remained after the oil was drained and a different oil added to the sump. I believe this was the same thread that the poster had talked to a Castrol engineer.
I thought of this after my previous post above. I also think BrocLuno has the right idea as well.
I thought of this after my previous post above. I also think BrocLuno has the right idea as well.
I am going to try the new full synthetic Castrol Magnatec once my WM sells out of the simi synthetic 5w30 and puts it on the shelf.
I have a vehicle that exhibits strong piston slap and valve tap especially on starting cold. I can always tell from the sound when an oil is thinning on that one. The only way I have been able to totally quell the noise is using a 4.0 HTHS oil. It may be unhealthily thick but no noise on startup, none running or idling. And it hangs in there for 12K/1 year changes.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The Magnatec may have had some influence on the Shell oil fill. It was mentioned in another thread in the past that the Magnatecs's clingy oil film properties remained after the oil was drained and a different oil added to the sump. I believe this was the same thread that the poster had talked to a Castrol engineer.
I thought of this after my previous post above. I also think BrocLuno has the right idea as well.
Everything is a compromise. Castrol USA used to have a commercial showing Syntec being drained and only a single quart placed in an engine with the car driven another 500 miles. Or where they had several test engines in a lab and did the same thing with all of them (didn't include Mobil 1 or other "synthetics") with only the Syntec not stopping due to engine failure. Their literature (they still had pamphlets at auto marts stores) claimed that they used polarized esters that would bond to the walls of engine parts. They never made a claim that other oil companies with similar formulas didn't achieve a similar effect.
Still - I participated in a discussion with a chemist who worked on motor oil and fuel testing. He said it was all fine and well, but everything has to be balanced. If a base oil was too tenacious bonding to metals, it would outcompete for surface area with all sorts of components like antiwear additives, detergents, corrosion inhibitors, etc.
It's well known that higher viscosity oil often results in less noise. However, it's probably a bulk effect (dampening the noise) and not one where it's necessarily protecting the engine any better. Some lower viscosity oils have thicker oil films, but that doesn't result in a quieter engine.
The Magnatec may have had some influence on the Shell oil fill. It was mentioned in another thread in the past that the Magnatecs's clingy oil film properties remained after the oil was drained and a different oil added to the sump. I believe this was the same thread that the poster had talked to a Castrol engineer.
I thought of this after my previous post above. I also think BrocLuno has the right idea as well.
Everything is a compromise. Castrol USA used to have a commercial showing Syntec being drained and only a single quart placed in an engine with the car driven another 500 miles. Or where they had several test engines in a lab and did the same thing with all of them (didn't include Mobil 1 or other "synthetics") with only the Syntec not stopping due to engine failure. Their literature (they still had pamphlets at auto marts stores) claimed that they used polarized esters that would bond to the walls of engine parts. They never made a claim that other oil companies with similar formulas didn't achieve a similar effect.
Still - I participated in a discussion with a chemist who worked on motor oil and fuel testing. He said it was all fine and well, but everything has to be balanced. If a base oil was too tenacious bonding to metals, it would outcompete for surface area with all sorts of components like antiwear additives, detergents, corrosion inhibitors, etc.
It's well known that higher viscosity oil often results in less noise. However, it's probably a bulk effect (dampening the noise) and not one where it's necessarily protecting the engine any better. Some lower viscosity oils have thicker oil films, but that doesn't result in a quieter engine.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts. Noise means impact. Quiet means parts sliding past each other.
Choice is yours, but I take quiet every time I can get it
+1 Given a choice, quiet wins for me.
It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts. Noise means impact. Quiet means parts sliding past each other.
Choice is yours, but I take quiet every time I can get it
+1 Given a choice, quiet wins for me.
Yeah, thicker oil makes for a quieter engine but the cost is increased wear in the cyclinders
where oil rings can't spread and scrap back thicker oil as well as spec viscosity oil.
Thicker oil favors main bearings, camshaft bearings, hydraulic lifters, etc, and lower oil loss at crankshaft seals.
If you wanna do lots of miles, 250K +, stick with spec oil and put up with the noise! LOL
BTW yrs ago I ran a 318CI V8 with leaky rear crank seal that lost 1 quart of 10W30 oil EVERY day!
With 20W50, leaks dropped like a stone, used 20W50 even in the winter! Engine was clapped out already at 300K miles,
so no big deal with compromising cyclinder wear. LOL
where oil rings can't spread and scrap back thicker oil as well as spec viscosity oil.
Thicker oil favors main bearings, camshaft bearings, hydraulic lifters, etc, and lower oil loss at crankshaft seals.
If you wanna do lots of miles, 250K +, stick with spec oil and put up with the noise! LOL
BTW yrs ago I ran a 318CI V8 with leaky rear crank seal that lost 1 quart of 10W30 oil EVERY day!
With 20W50, leaks dropped like a stone, used 20W50 even in the winter! Engine was clapped out already at 300K miles,
so no big deal with compromising cyclinder wear. LOL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts. Noise means impact. Quiet means parts sliding past each other.
Choice is yours, but I take quiet every time I can get it
+1 Given a choice, quiet wins for me.
I had the same experience with Mobile 1 AFE. For several years I used 5w20 and 0w20...and experienced a noisy engine, I finally switched to QSUD 0w20...which resulted a much quieter engine.
I'm currently using 0w20 PUP, and experience a quieter engine as well.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts. Noise means impact. Quiet means parts sliding past each other.
Choice is yours, but I take quiet every time I can get it
+1 Given a choice, quiet wins for me.
I had the same experience with Mobile 1 AFE. For several years I used 5w20 and 0w20...and experienced a noisy engine, I finally switched to QSUD 0w20...which resulted a much quieter engine.
I'm currently using 0w20 PUP, and experience a quieter engine as well.
OEM "spec" oil varies from country to country and climate to climate for the same vehicle. Australia comes to mind.
Then there is CAFE 5W-30 and A3/B3 5W-30 i guess. Same lable range, but whole different animal in the bottle ...
Got ragged on back in the day for suggesting that when I ran my 4Runner (3VZE) on M1 0W40 it rattled like a tin pail full of bolts..."placebo" it was called.
Anyway, there's papers on the topic of engine accoustics and different oils, and the differences can be quite significant (remember, 3dB is doubling of sound pressure).
Anyway, there's papers on the topic of engine accoustics and different oils, and the differences can be quite significant (remember, 3dB is doubling of sound pressure).
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I have posted back to back oil changes where PUP was noisier than M1 EP measured with Db meter ... I ordered the Db instrument when PUP sounded louder to 3 people ...
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud
Yeah, thicker oil makes for a quieter engine but the cost is increased wear in the cyclinders
where oil rings can't spread and scrap back thicker oil as well as spec viscosity oil.
Thicker oil favors main bearings, camshaft bearings, hydraulic lifters, etc, and lower oil loss at crankshaft seals.
If you wanna do lots of miles, 250K +, stick with spec oil and put up with the noise! LOL
BTW yrs ago I ran a 318CI V8 with leaky rear crank seal that lost 1 quart of 10W30 oil EVERY day!
With 20W50, leaks dropped like a stone, used 20W50 even in the winter! Engine was clapped out already at 300K miles,
so no big deal with compromising cyclinder wear. LOL
I do worry about the thicker oil 40 weight in this case causing more cylindar wear? The Nissan VQ V6 was rated for up to 10w40 in "05-06" and then the same motor up until today is just rated for 5w30 grade. Mine is a 2012 and at 60k out of warranty so I thought I would try some different 40 weight oils. Even though the 10w40 I am running makes less noise it is prob wise to stay with the recommended 30 weight oil. I do wonder if this VQ40V6 is sold in other countries and what oil weights are recommended?
Yeah, thicker oil makes for a quieter engine but the cost is increased wear in the cyclinders
where oil rings can't spread and scrap back thicker oil as well as spec viscosity oil.
Thicker oil favors main bearings, camshaft bearings, hydraulic lifters, etc, and lower oil loss at crankshaft seals.
If you wanna do lots of miles, 250K +, stick with spec oil and put up with the noise! LOL
BTW yrs ago I ran a 318CI V8 with leaky rear crank seal that lost 1 quart of 10W30 oil EVERY day!
With 20W50, leaks dropped like a stone, used 20W50 even in the winter! Engine was clapped out already at 300K miles,
so no big deal with compromising cyclinder wear. LOL
I do worry about the thicker oil 40 weight in this case causing more cylindar wear? The Nissan VQ V6 was rated for up to 10w40 in "05-06" and then the same motor up until today is just rated for 5w30 grade. Mine is a 2012 and at 60k out of warranty so I thought I would try some different 40 weight oils. Even though the 10w40 I am running makes less noise it is prob wise to stay with the recommended 30 weight oil. I do wonder if this VQ40V6 is sold in other countries and what oil weights are recommended?
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Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I do worry about the thicker oil 40 weight in this case causing more cylindar wear? The Nissan VQ V6 was rated for up to 10w40 in "05-06" and then the same motor up until today is just rated for 5w30 grade. Mine is a 2012 and at 60k out of warranty so I thought I would try some different 40 weight oils. Even though the 10w40 I am running makes less noise it is prob wise to stay with the recommended 30 weight oil. I do wonder if this VQ40V6 is sold in other countries and what oil weights are recommended?
You'll be fine running the 40wt. Do some reading on the Z33/34 forums. Most of them prefer 40wts.
I do worry about the thicker oil 40 weight in this case causing more cylindar wear? The Nissan VQ V6 was rated for up to 10w40 in "05-06" and then the same motor up until today is just rated for 5w30 grade. Mine is a 2012 and at 60k out of warranty so I thought I would try some different 40 weight oils. Even though the 10w40 I am running makes less noise it is prob wise to stay with the recommended 30 weight oil. I do wonder if this VQ40V6 is sold in other countries and what oil weights are recommended?
You'll be fine running the 40wt. Do some reading on the Z33/34 forums. Most of them prefer 40wts.
I had same experience with Mobil oil in my VW and then switched to Rotella, car ran happier. That's about only reason I avoid Mobil and use PP now.
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Both were HDEO ? What were readings ?
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