2012 CBR 1000RR GN4 10w-30

[dole]

Thank you, Sir.

This is enlightening.

I remember GN is the original factory fill?
100 mileage shows a viscosity of 20wt oil, which indicates the orgingal is nearly a 20wt.

I currently use 40wt on my Honda scooter, viscosity is 14.2.
Based on this report, I would boldly change to 30wt oil, say, Mobil 5W-30 viscosity is 11.

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
Originally Posted By: sunruh
E) all but D

shops make a lot of money selling parts - any brand

if a mfg calls for a oci of 8k and the oil is out of grade by 3k
what would it be at in another 5k? (ie more than double its out of grade milage)
would you really want to follow that oci?

do you normally take something 100+% past its worn out point?

if your milk says best by Mar 31 do you still drink it on April 30?
if not why not? you are doing that with your oil in that motor that sits between your ankles


Okay, thanks. I don't agree with most (any?) of the premise(s) you advance here based on both analytical and field experience, but I am glad to better understand where you're coming from.


so then you disagree with my statement that says uoa's are just about worthless since they have proven to not even show any issues in the motor even when broken parts just occurred inside it.

 

[Bonz]

I am trying to follow what you're saying but I don't understand what broken parts you are talking about from this thread? If it is a statement in general, what examples are being used?

 

[Mackelroy]

Honda shifted to light weight oil in the last few years , was probably more an environmental thing. I have a motor that showed 20w50 at one time in the manuals, and the same motor 8 years later, 10w30. Honda wants a usable life, and you can get that with a 10w30 with 8,000 miles oci's. Doesn't mean that's the best life.

But I don't run 10w30 in motorcycles, due to high rpm cam lobe wear Ive seen in the past. I choose heavier viscosity to quelch that.

 

[Bonz]

This bike has been seeing some track days. My question would be if there is no undue wear and tear on this CBR1000 based on the multiples of analysis shown, how does does that reconcile itself with high rpm cam wear? What wear metals would be showing for excess cam lobe wear? I'm not trying to be a smart alec, just wanting to understand.

 

[Mackelroy]

My case I opened the valve covers and looked and monitored, about .20 thousanths over time off the peaks, no oil analysis needed. started seeing some rounding of the cam lobes, by 25,000 miles. Bike was run on 5w40 PAO oil, was more like a high 30 weight new, or just barely a 40 weight.

It was a gradual rounding, but caught my attention that maybe heavier weights are better for high rpm high pressure areas of motorcycle engines.

That's where my view stems from.

Note , it would show up as iron in an UOA

 

[Bonz]

Thanks for the reply, Mackelroy. Any idea much normal lobe wear might a bike show over 25,000 miles in theory if using the oil that provides the "most" protection? Reason I am asking is does the viscosity protect against lobe wear or is it the additives such as zinc that are supposed to be one of the better barriers if oil film breaks down? Traditionally lobe wear was held in check by heavier amounts of zinc and phosphorus in oils. What was the zinc and phosphorus value in the analysis of the 5w40 oil that sheared down to a high 30wt?

If you look at my analysis that was posted in another thread about my ZRX1200, you will see the synthetic 5W40 had the worst wear numbers by far. It went for a good number more miles, however it did not impress me.

 

[Mackelroy]

I don't think there's a lot of value in looking to high zinc, cause all oils(including mc oils) have dropped down on those additives, The zinc in the oil I was running was around the standard 1,000 ppm, with about 1,200 ppm being about the max you can find in any oil now adays.

I lean more to the oil film viscosity , if there's going to be a benefit.

The oil I was using a was a $10 per quart PAO MC OIL(it barely made a 40 weight new). I'd use it today, but not in a 5w40, just to thin. Considerably thinner than even 5w40 rotella. Which the latter Ive done a uoa on, and don't like it either for longevity.

BTW one of the best uoa's Ive seen on a sport bike that held 3 quarts total, was 2 quarts 10w30 redline, and one quart 20w50 redline for longevity. It held a high 30 weight 2,000 mile later with low wear numbers, course the bike had well over 100,000 miles.

 

[Bonz]

I think redline makes a really good oil. The other ones that should get more due is the Mobil 1 10W40 4T racing syn and the 20W50 syn VTwin. Very good additive package while staying in grade and have shown very good wear characteristics.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Bonz
I am trying to follow what you're saying but I don't understand what broken parts you are talking about from this thread? If it is a statement in general, what examples are being used?


I do wish he would elaborate more fully on what he is saying sometimes, but in this case there are several examples of “OK” UOA’s on blown up engines around here.

 

[Bonz]

DuckRyder, Thanks for that. Sunruh, what motorcycle do you ride?

Usually a blown engine is a catastrophic one time failure no analysis could predict. Folks don't generally use analysis to tell what happened after the fact, or hold analysis to that standard. At that point it's a moot point what the heck is in the oil.

Top level racing team checks their oil EVERY chance they can after practice leading up to a race. Engines still let go 10 laps in. Granted those engines are tuned on the edge however do race teams stop doing analysis when that happens? No they don't.

Think about it, as an example oil is analyzed oil after the last practice before the US MotoGP, Brickyard 400, Indy 500. And an engine lets go within 25 miles and there was no sign of impending doom. Junk happens. Doesn't make analysis a waste. The benefits of predictive analysis far outweigh any after-the-fact analysis that may or may not show particulate matter when making comparisons and judgements.

I know for me, especially after doing engine work, analysis is very helpful to see if the engine has broken back in properly. And also it does show some oils are better suited to some engines.

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted By: Bonz
DuckRyder, Thanks for that. Sunruh, what motorcycle do you ride?


on the street i ride a honda vfr800 (used to be a honda cbr600f2 and before that a yamaha fzr600). i have NEVER done a uoa on my street bikes.

i RACE a yamaha yz250f...i have owned 3 different years of this model since it came out in 01,06,16.

all of my uoa's are on this motor. yes all 70 plus uoa's.

 

[Bonz]

That's really cool that you have been so on top of the analysis for your YZ. Did the analysis help you to determine when to do a top or bottom end or complete overhaul of the engine before something wore out or broke?

Honestly, besides simple curiosity of wear metals in the engine, I like to see the zinc and phosphorus and add-pack of the various oils. Mostly, I like to see if the oil matches up with specs from the mfg.

Like I have said in previous posts in the thread where I share my ZRX 1200 analysis, wear doesn't seem to vary much based on zinc or phosphorus. I think lower quality base stock or higher quality base stock in this day and age tends to separate the oil's more than zinc or phosphorus or other additives.

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
so then you disagree with my statement that says uoa's are just about worthless since they have proven to not even show any issues in the motor even when broken parts just occurred inside it.


The data I have collected from the fleet, to include just-failed engines, controverts your premise in this post. If what you _meant_ was that you think certain UOA reports, in particular a certain lab's commentary, are badly over-priced and under-informative, then I would agree.

The premises I recall you having advanced or agreed with in this thread were:

1) 10w30 in one of these motors just isnt smart
2) Honda hates its customers so much that it specifies deficient oil so that their bikes wear out prematurely
3) Honda is too retarded to know that the oil they buy & brand (and everything else in the grade(s) they specify) shears down quickly
4) Honda doesn't employ a single lubrication engineer, or doesn't listen to them

I still don't recall what or even whether you've given a performance-based reason for disliking 30-grades.