Rotational Noise - can't determine cause - 06 Tund

[meep]

2006 Tundra in my sig.

At 35mph+, you hear "rut rut rut rut rut rut"
By 60mph, it pretty much becomes solid...."ruuuuuuuuuuuu....."
It increases with wheel speed.

It is LOUD in the drivers seat. It is hardly audible in the others. You can feel it in your feet in drivers floor.

It's been doing this for 3-4 years, ever since towing a heavily loaded camper through the appalachians. Brakes overheated, and I later saw grease coming down from the back of the knuckle from the bearing location. You would think now that it would be...., right?

Asked mechanic to replace bearings 3 years ago. He said NO, they aren't bad, no noise on the lift, and at $400, he couldn't do it in good conscience. Suggested tires.

Tires were approaching wear bars, so, OK, 2.5 years ago, I put on new tires, different brand.

SAME SOUND remains. Again, this seems obvious to me.

By last week, with several headaches lately, that sound was really bugging me. Took it back to the shop. Asked them to replace the bearings, front left. They call back - "man, this is an expensive job, and they don't click or show any signs of issue on the lift. are you sure? We think it's the tires, some cupping found."

I tell them it can't be the tires... since it did this with the tires before. "Bearings, go ahead and do it."

They call me back the next day. "We are really sorry, the noise is still there. We recommend rotating the tires (which I just did 2 months ago, no change), or living with it since the tires, while cupped, have good tread - but if it's bothering you, your call."

I go back to a tire I've had before and liked - "put tires on it."

Overall cabin noise is down, but this problem noise persists.

So--- maybe it's not the front - maybe it's being carried from elsewhere and is just showing up there, resonances and all. So I change the diff fluid in the rear. amsoil 75-110 severe gear. Grey fluid comes out, honey fluid goes in. There's about .25 cm^3 of debris on the magnet from 30,000 miles, not bad at all. Again, overall noise level drops more, but the problem noise is still there.

Everything in me says it's a bearing.

There is no differential whine.

OR, is there a collapsed bushing? Strut assy bushings look OK. Frame mounts?

I am out of ideas!

-Meep

 

[drtyler]

This won't be the cause of the noise, but it may help reduce the level of the noise in the cabin. Where the steering linkage goes through the firewall, there is a seal -- part number 45292-35090. Since it is close to the exhaust heat, they tend to get hard and fail every few years. My Tundra is an '04, and I've already replaced it twice. I can always tell when it needs replacing because of the extra sounds coming in to the cabin.

Might be worth checking the condition of your engine and transmission mounts, as well as the bearings on the rear wheels.

 

[InhalingBullets]

The '07 and up Tundras have a carrier bearing in the drive line that will go bad and cause something like this. Not sure if the '06 has one but its worth a look.

 

[supton]

Just did rear wheel bearings in my older Camry. I couldn't figure out what side it was, neither felt good by hand (while installed), decided it was cheap enough to do both. Once off they both felt awful. And the noise went away (can hear the fronts now...).

Been my experience that cutting the wheel left/right while driving so as to determine what wheel bearing is bad does not work: usually, they are both bad. Or the mate isn't far behind.

 

[meep]

good point -

Carrier bearing and all 3 u-joints were replaced last year. The 1 u-joint was getting tired, and while the bearing itself was still ok, the bushing around it was completely separated.

 

[Lyman]

Had a strange noise like that years ago on one of my old mustangs. After over a year of trying to track it down it ended up being the carrier bearings in the rear end. I HATE trying to find noises.

 

[Rolla07]

I would bring it to a good Toyota dealer to diagnose if you know of one. Sounds clearly to be a bad wheel bearing...bring it to a mechanic who can figure it out because yours doesnt sound that good...

 

[Trav]

It could be a differential carrier or pinion bearing making noise. I doubt its a wheel bearing after 3-4 years I would think it would surely get worse.
Towing the big trailer could have gotten the diff hot and lube thin and damaged a bearing, the fact the noise lessened is a indicator there could be something going on in the diff, find a better mechanic to use a chassis ear on it.

 

[meep]

I hadn't really considered the rear that much, but a carrier bearing would make sense. I may run it up on jack stands and see what comes out. It doesn't vary with throttle input but I can drag the brakes if I need to for a short time to load it.

Hannah help if it was a carrier bearing - I can see that costing a bit of cake.

-Mike

 

[Trav]

I thought you replaced the carrier bearing? If the rubber is toast it can shift and make noise. For the V8 Rock has an SKF for $52. A moving carrier bearing is usually accompanied by vibration also.

 

[meep]

Sorry - yes I replaced the driveshaft carrier bearing - I was thinking in that post of the differential/axle bearings.

-m

 

[Trav]

I was confused, i read you changed it. I don't know I cant look at it but it seems reasonable that if this started after towing something heavy for any sort of distance the diff fluid probably got hot as mothers frying pan.
A bearing can make noise without suffering an initial total failure, I would suspect the pinion bearing(s) as they are roller bearings and furthest away from the lube (not inc axle bearing) in most cases but it could be any bearing in there if that in fact is where the noise is coming from.

A good mechanic can diagnose and repair this properly with no problem, there should be no issues setting pinion depth and all that carry on.

 

[meep]

You could be right. I've read that for towing, the temp to monitor is the axle - not the trans since the trans has active cooling. I learned this *after* installing an electric gauge on the transmission cooler outlet. I've never put my hand on the axle after towing (usually I'm trying to reshape my body into an upright form instead of the contour of the car seat) but I've been near it and could feel it radiating heat. It's also a 4.10 rear - which makes tow duty easier on the engine/trans but also, from what I've read, generate more heat than a taller gear would. That goes counter to the typical "tow package" installed by oems.

 

[meep]

Update--

It's the axle in the rear, like night and day. I ran it in gear with the wheels off the ground and it was clearly obvious, but only outside the truck. In the cabin, it still sounds like it's the front, but even unloaded, wheel off the ground, it's easily heard from 10 feet away. I've never dealt with this. Any bets on if the inner bearings/gears might be compromised?

When I cleaned the diff magnet last week, "There's about .25 cm^3 of debris on the magnet from 30,000 miles, not bad at all." That's a good sign...

Fingers crossed. Since I'm not doing this myself, (it's at a shop now), it's either $450 for an outboard bearing, $1500 if the diff carrier needs a bearing, or more if the gears have been compromised.

Bets?

-Meep

 

[GMBoy]

I don't think its a bearing issue. They have different noises then what you describe. Bearing will make a ROARING sound and by turning the wheel sharply you can normally make the sound change.

I think its your brakes. Does the tundra have those little drum brakes for the park brake inside the rotor? If so - I've seen a few make that noise and it was the park brake shoes. A litte test you can do is drive it until you hear the noise and gently engage the parking brake until it drags and see if the noise changes. Also maybe a dust shield around the rotors?

 

[meep]

It's definitely rear bearings, no question. It's hard to describe the sound in words - maybe there's a better way...

Since it's in the rear, the steering wheel test never showed anything. The shop called back and confirmed that at least the outboard bearing was shot, and they won't know if anything else is bad until they pull it apart.

I did some reading - apparently toyota uses sealed bearings in their axles, and there are baffles surrounding the pumpkin to keep the lube from traveling down the tubes - very strange. every other axle I've known, the rear bearings all have exposure to the diff lube. Also, there are a number of complaints on the 'net about toyota premature rear wheel bearing failure. Who knew?

 

[meep]

Follow-up: It was indeed the left rear outboard axle bearing. For future Tundra inquiries, the rear axle bearings sound like front bearings and can be felt in the front floorboards.

An interesting note is the mechanic notes said nasty oil and water came out of the diff. I questioned this since I had changed it 7 days prior but the clerk couldn't explain it. These guys have always treated me right so I didn't push too hard. Toyota does seal off the diff tubes (why??) so it's possible the tubes collected junk in them while the center was clear, and it all came out once the axle was pulled out.

Anyway, it's done. Sorry it couldn't be a DIY but I'm happy it's on the road again.

-m

 

[supton]

I recall looking into my gen Tundra, and the bearings are pressed onto the shaft. Doesn't sound very DIY to me.

At least it's fixed.

 

[Trav]

They are a fairly easy DIY, a cut almost through the inner race then split with a cold chisel gets the old one off putting the new one on is easy.
Get a long piece of pipe the same diameter as the inner race, put the bearing on top of a 100w light bulb for an hour.
Drop it on the shaft with a pair of pliers and have a helper chase it down the axle with the pipe, a few taps with a dead blow on the pipe will seat it with o damage.