Metal Flakes / Particles in Oil,
- Thread starter jceo
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Originally Posted By: jceo
Thanks kschachn, so it is possible they did not show up since they were not "dissolved" in the oil?
More or less, it has to do with the residence time in the machine's plasma. Relatively massive particles won't have enough time to vaporize. So in order to get them to show up you treat the sample with acid to get the particles into solution. That only works for metallic particles though, if they are rubber or plastic pieces then they aren't going to show up no matter what since ICP does not test for the elements in polymers (since they are the same ones as in the oil itself and/or are not detectable by ICP).
On the other hand, if an engine is self-destructing and shedding metals, it usually doesn't just shed large particles unless it is a sudden catastrophic failure.
Thanks kschachn, so it is possible they did not show up since they were not "dissolved" in the oil?
More or less, it has to do with the residence time in the machine's plasma. Relatively massive particles won't have enough time to vaporize. So in order to get them to show up you treat the sample with acid to get the particles into solution. That only works for metallic particles though, if they are rubber or plastic pieces then they aren't going to show up no matter what since ICP does not test for the elements in polymers (since they are the same ones as in the oil itself and/or are not detectable by ICP).
On the other hand, if an engine is self-destructing and shedding metals, it usually doesn't just shed large particles unless it is a sudden catastrophic failure.
Could it just be sand/grit that fell off the bottom of your Jeep during the oil change? Keeps can be pretty dirty.
Engine debris should mot crumble under your fingers.
Engine debris should mot crumble under your fingers.
Well guys, I can now think of two scenarios:
1) The engine is shedding fine flakes of metal for some reason and it is not showing up in the used oil analysis because the particles are too large and there is an absence of "dissolved" wear metal.
2) Around 48,000 miles ago, before even the first oil change, the engine started running rough and the check engine light came on. The dealer replaced the camshaft(s) on one side because it had flat spots. I am guessing there is a chance that this is residual metal particles from the camshaft. That could explain why the UOA came back good. However it seems a little far fetched that there would still be particles like this coming out in oil changes after at least 10 oil changes. Any thoughts?
1) The engine is shedding fine flakes of metal for some reason and it is not showing up in the used oil analysis because the particles are too large and there is an absence of "dissolved" wear metal.
2) Around 48,000 miles ago, before even the first oil change, the engine started running rough and the check engine light came on. The dealer replaced the camshaft(s) on one side because it had flat spots. I am guessing there is a chance that this is residual metal particles from the camshaft. That could explain why the UOA came back good. However it seems a little far fetched that there would still be particles like this coming out in oil changes after at least 10 oil changes. Any thoughts?
Originally Posted By: jceo
2) Around 48,000 miles ago, before even the first oil change, the engine started running rough and the check engine light came on. The dealer replaced the camshaft(s) on one side because it had flat spots. I am guessing there is a chance that this is residual metal particles from the camshaft.
They say WHY? That shouldn't "just happen", and I'd want to be convinced that the underlying cause (perhaps oil supply to the cam lobes?) was addressed, otherwise it'd be likely to happen again.
2) Around 48,000 miles ago, before even the first oil change, the engine started running rough and the check engine light came on. The dealer replaced the camshaft(s) on one side because it had flat spots. I am guessing there is a chance that this is residual metal particles from the camshaft.
They say WHY? That shouldn't "just happen", and I'd want to be convinced that the underlying cause (perhaps oil supply to the cam lobes?) was addressed, otherwise it'd be likely to happen again.
Originally Posted By: jceo
The dealer ended up replacing the cam phasers, gears and camshafts on the driver side. One or both of the cam shafts had some flat spots which the mechanic had never seen before. I'm not sure why the cam phasers went bad in the first place.
Any chance the other cam shaft is on it's way out?
The dealer ended up replacing the cam phasers, gears and camshafts on the driver side. One or both of the cam shafts had some flat spots which the mechanic had never seen before. I'm not sure why the cam phasers went bad in the first place.
Any chance the other cam shaft is on it's way out?
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