Difference between API SL and SM

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All of the "recommended" oils listed in my 2013 base (non-S) Mini Cooper's owner's manual, including Mini's "own" oil (Castrol at the time) are rated API SL--so too is the Edge 5w30 Euro (gold bottle made in Austria) I received today as a replacement for the NLA Edge 0w30 Euro (which was "recommended" and also SL) I was previously using.

However, the manual states that for the purposes of topping up to use an SM-rated oil if the recommended ones aren't available.

I looked at the API chart and SL is for gas engines 2004 and older, SM for 2010/older and SN for 2010/newer. Which tells me that my MY 2013 should require SN, but.......

Is the difference between the ratings critical? Again, I've been using SL-rated oils in my current car which at this point is largely a 63K-mile track rat with no apparent problems; the engine basically lives at redline and uses NO oil so I've had no need for "topping up"--more concerned about changing the oil completely which is done often.

Thanks to all--I'm certainly learning alot about oil here!!
grin.gif


Gary
 
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There was a reduction in zddp from SL to SM because phosphorus on the zddp molecule burning in the catalyst can damage it so they reduced it slightly.

So with edge claiming SL ratings they can use extra ZDDP. There's not a huge difference between SM/SN and SL zddp though just a couple hundred ppm, I think they reduced phosphorus limits from 1000 to 800 if I recall correctly, so there's still plenty anti wear additives in modern SN oils, plus they use organic anti wear additives as well that may not have been used 10 years ago
 
I suspect your Mini calls for something more than just API SL in the first place, probably calling for a European specification, correct? If so, it's a completely different regime than the API end of things, and the API certification would be completely irrelevant if you had the appropriate builder approval on the oil in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: gbuff
I looked at the API chart and SL is for gas engines 2004 and older, SM for 2010/older and SN for 2010/newer. Which tells me that my MY 2013 should require SN, but.......


Don't concern yourself with API specs. Your engine calls for LL01 spec which far surpasses both SL and SM.
 
Thanks again, Pete--now I don't have to pack the 5w30 back up and return it. You were right in an earlier thread; it is hard to find. I could only find it on Amazon--none of the local stores have it.

Gary
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
I suspect your Mini calls for something more than just API SL in the first place, probably calling for a European specification, correct? If so, it's a completely different regime than the API end of things, and the API certification would be completely irrelevant if you had the appropriate builder approval on the oil in the first place.


As stated in my original post, the oil Mini recommends (their own brand of 5w30) is SL, and so are all of their preferred alternatives, some of which are indeed labeled 'European formula".

Gary
 
Originally Posted By: gbuff
Originally Posted By: Garak
I suspect your Mini calls for something more than just API SL in the first place, probably calling for a European specification, correct? If so, it's a completely different regime than the API end of things, and the API certification would be completely irrelevant if you had the appropriate builder approval on the oil in the first place.


As stated in my original post, the oil Mini recommends (their own brand of 5w30) is SL, and so are all of their preferred alternatives, some of which are indeed labeled 'European formula".

Gary

Just because all of the Mini recommended oils (LL-01 spec) happen to carry API SL spec does not mean that Mini recommends API SL. Nowhere in the owner's manual does it say anything about API SL. You can ignore API specs and just pick any LL-01 oil.

As far as top off, what they're saying is that if you can't find LL-01 oil, then the next best thing would be something with at least API SM rating.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gbuff
Originally Posted By: Garak
I suspect your Mini calls for something more than just API SL in the first place, probably calling for a European specification, correct? If so, it's a completely different regime than the API end of things, and the API certification would be completely irrelevant if you had the appropriate builder approval on the oil in the first place.


As stated in my original post, the oil Mini recommends (their own brand of 5w30) is SL, and so are all of their preferred alternatives, some of which are indeed labeled 'European formula".

Gary

Just because all of the Mini recommended oils (LL-01 spec) happen to carry API SL spec does not mean that Mini recommends API SL. Nowhere in the owner's manual does it say anything about API SL. You can ignore API specs and just pick any LL-01 oil.

As far as top off, what they're saying is that if you can't find LL-01 oil, then the next best thing would be something with at least API SM rating.


So in effect the LL01 spec takes precedence over the API spec in this case--the Edge 5w30 meets the former so I'm good. I looked at some of the specs of the 5w30 and the Edge 0w30 I previously used and, to my largely untrained eye, they look pretty similar. I'm really more concerned with keeping the 30 weight than the 5......that poor little engine works hard enough as it is and doesn't need to push anything heavier than necessary.
 
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Originally Posted By: gbuff
I'm really more concerned with keeping the 30 weight than the 5......that poor little engine works hard enough as it is and doesn't need to push anything heavier than necessary.

But if you spend a lot of time at the track, one could argue that a 40-grade oil may provide a bit more protection at those extreme operating conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gbuff
I'm really more concerned with keeping the 30 weight than the 5......that poor little engine works hard enough as it is and doesn't need to push anything heavier than necessary.

But if you spend a lot of time at the track, one could argue that a 40-grade oil may provide a bit more protection at those extreme operating conditions.



Well, we'll find out in less than 3 weeks @ Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course (man, it's been a long winter
crazy.gif
)--if the 5w30 lets the car rev like the old oil did I'll probably stay with it, though it'd be much more convenient (and cheaper) to be able to pop into WM for a jug of the Edge 0w40 when needed--we'll see.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I thought you already decided on edge 0w40 and bought it, based on what you wrote in other threads?


I did but later returned it.
 
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What Castrol Edge do you have? If it's the same as the Australian Edge - A3/B4 LL01 MB229.5 then it's a thicker 30 and the only reason it is SL rated is due to them not caring about the weak sauce emission rubbish and having a better amount of zddp.

As per your other questions, yes ignore API completely. The best oils usually have most of these specs: A3/B4, MB229.5, LL01, Porsche A40.
 
Originally Posted By: KL31
What Castrol Edge do you have? If it's the same as the Australian Edge - A3/B4 LL01 MB229.5 then it's a thicker 30 and the only reason it is SL rated is due to them not caring about the weak sauce emission rubbish and having a better amount of zddp.

As per your other questions, yes ignore API completely. The best oils usually have most of these specs: A3/B4, MB229.5, LL01, Porsche A40.


Had Edge 0w30 Euro, now have Edge 5w30 Euro.
 
Originally Posted By: gbuff
As stated in my original post, the oil Mini recommends (their own brand of 5w30) is SL, and so are all of their preferred alternatives, some of which are indeed labeled 'European formula".

What I was getting at is what Quattro Pete said. Isn't it BMW LL-01? There are BMW LL-01 oils that are SN (i.e. most of the 40 grades) and those that are SL (the 30 grades). That has nothing to do with which is "better" for your application; it's merely a function of API rules. If you have two otherwise identical formulations for LL-01, and one is a 40, it could be SN. If it falls within a 30, it would have to be SL. These oils could easily yank the API specifications altogether and avoid a lot of confusion.

And don't fuss over a 30 versus a 40 too much. They HTHS of all the LL-01 products will be exceedingly close and your fuel economy and power differences will be immeasurable. If it were me, I'd stick to the Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4 simply out of cost considerations and package sizing.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: gbuff
As stated in my original post, the oil Mini recommends (their own brand of 5w30) is SL, and so are all of their preferred alternatives, some of which are indeed labeled 'European formula".

What I was getting at is what Quattro Pete said. Isn't it BMW LL-01? There are BMW LL-01 oils that are SN (i.e. most of the 40 grades) and those that are SL (the 30 grades). That has nothing to do with which is "better" for your application; it's merely a function of API rules. If you have two otherwise identical formulations for LL-01, and one is a 40, it could be SN. If it falls within a 30, it would have to be SL. These oils could easily yank the API specifications altogether and avoid a lot of confusion.

And don't fuss over a 30 versus a 40 too much. They HTHS of all the LL-01 products will be exceedingly close and your fuel economy and power differences will be immeasurable. If it were me, I'd stick to the Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4 simply out of cost considerations and package sizing.


Exactly. It isn't that confusing unless one wishes to make it so. There's no need to chase down unicorn products or return stuff or sweat about it.

And I've lost track in this thread but Edge euro 5W-30 doesn't have Longlife-01, correct? And it's hard to find, costing $10 a quart right? Just why? For all the messing around I'd have to do to find that oil I'd be better off going to my local BMW dealer and getting the BMW-branded LL-01 for about $7.50 a quart.
 
I'm not sure about the American one, but the Canadian Castrol Edge 5w-30 A3/B4 does have the LL-01 certification. It's just only available in 1 litre bottles here, hence my concerns about cost. Here, it can be found at a few retail places, but I suspect that it will be more readily available in the States in the coming months. Up here, we get to keep Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4. It's discontinued in the States. So, some shelf space may be opening down south. Up here, Wakefield just markets aggressively, and you can see four Castrol A3/B4 options on one shelf.

$30 or under for a jug of Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 (or Pennzoil's equivalent where available, as in not up here
wink.gif
) is hard to beat.
 
Originally Posted By: gbuff
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I thought you already decided on edge 0w40 and bought it, based on what you wrote in other threads?


I did but later returned it.

Analysis paralysis in a typical BITOG fashion.
smile.gif


You have arrived.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: gbuff
As stated in my original post, the oil Mini recommends (their own brand of 5w30) is SL, and so are all of their preferred alternatives, some of which are indeed labeled 'European formula".

What I was getting at is what Quattro Pete said. Isn't it BMW LL-01? There are BMW LL-01 oils that are SN (i.e. most of the 40 grades) and those that are SL (the 30 grades). That has nothing to do with which is "better" for your application; it's merely a function of API rules. If you have two otherwise identical formulations for LL-01, and one is a 40, it could be SN. If it falls within a 30, it would have to be SL. These oils could easily yank the API specifications altogether and avoid a lot of confusion.

And don't fuss over a 30 versus a 40 too much. They HTHS of all the LL-01 products will be exceedingly close and your fuel economy and power differences will be immeasurable. If it were me, I'd stick to the Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4 simply out of cost considerations and package sizing.


Exactly. It isn't that confusing unless one wishes to make it so. There's no need to chase down unicorn products or return stuff or sweat about it.

And I've lost track in this thread but Edge euro 5W-30 doesn't have Longlife-01, correct? And it's hard to find, costing $10 a quart right? Just why? For all the messing around I'd have to do to find that oil I'd be better off going to my local BMW dealer and getting the BMW-branded LL-01 for about $7.50 a quart.


The Euro 5w30 is indeed LL01 which is one of the reasons I went with it. Amazon is my friend......
Simply exploring all my options and trying to learn.

Gary
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gbuff
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I thought you already decided on edge 0w40 and bought it, based on what you wrote in other threads?


I did but later returned it.

Analysis paralysis in a typical BITOG fashion.
smile.gif


You have arrived.


Haha! Nah, I'm good now......now the focus shifts to things like "can I take Turn 8 at Mosport flat and survive?"
grin.gif
 
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