Oil Filter Experiment: Nissan Micra K12

[Donald64]

Hello.
I have owned my 2008 Nissan Micra (also known as Nissan March) from new. I live in England, by the way.
It has an all-alloy 4-cylinder inline gasoline engine with a chain-driven twin-cam 16v fitted with a Renault 5-speed manual transmission and 1240cc. Valve actuation is done by bucket & shim. The tech spec of its engine is just about as typical as they come. The only interesting bit about this engine is that it's made in Japan by a company that only makes a few different engine types which are (I believe) exclusively used by Nissan. Most of the rest of the car is derived from the parent company's Mk3 Renault Clio.
Aside from some early timing chain wear problems - completely resolved in a 2005 redesign - it's practically bullet proof.

So I've been a nearly daily visitor to this site for the past five years. Recently I read a post where someone states that they'd happily run their car with 'No Oil Filter'. Well, I am going to do just that...
I am going to cut an already short filter at the base, remove ALL of the filter's internals and rejoin in a 'short as possible' way it with engineering adhesive and with fresh 'VISCOL' Fully Synthetic Dexos-2 5W/30 @ £13.95 for 4.5 liters ($17.46 USD).
This will be done over Easter when the car will just pass the 50,000-mile point.
A few things:
1. I'm doing this just for the 'let's see what'll happen. I am just as oil filter/engine oil obsessed as the next guy on this website. I love buying different make oil filters. I love the internal combustion engine. I love reading just about any automobile engineering related article.
2. I don't mind if the engine seizes at the 50.002-mile point. There's a pristine 17.000-mile 2010 engine in my workshop and I've been repairing cars as my job since 1980 so fitting it will be easy enough, my oldish age notwithstanding.
3. I know the cut & shut method using an engineering adhesive will work. I have used it in an earlier 'let's see if my VW ever goes into bypass mode experiment. I opened the filter to fit a micro-switch device. It didn't BTW...
4. I will drive it as I have always done. That is, mostly urban 12-mile twice daily with weekend motorway journeys of around 80-miles per trip. But I do drive like a kitten.
5. I'll keep you chaps updated. I intend to strip the engine at the 100,000-mile point. All comments are welcome, but please go easy, it's my first ever BITOG post...
6. If this has already been done, I'll scrap the plan.

Thanks for reading and apologies for the post's ponderous style; I have a very poorly-functioning endocrine system (eg almost zero testosterone production) and defective hypothalamus as well as being prescribed tons of opiate (read elephant-grade) medication for an accident I had when I used to run my own Citroen mechanical repair business. So, I am a bit weird
Thank you.

 

[paulri]

Interesting experiment.

If you care to search and wade through link after link, I know the actual "bobistheoilguy" member here had his own experiment--he was doing UOAs and did one after having no filter for his oil for the duration of the oil change interval. Wear metals were up, but not nearly by as much as I would have thought....

 

[redbone3]

VW Beetle did this experiment for years and with millions of cars.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: redbone3
VW Beetle did this experiment for years and with millions of cars.
So did many other brands, back when oil filters were optional, if available at all. My former landlady's '55 Chevy went well beyond 100K with no oil filter, and not even a good air filter, yet didn't make strange noises or leave blue clouds behind.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: redbone3
VW Beetle did this experiment for years and with millions of cars.


Using 2500~3000 mile oil changes on non-synthetic oil. Most of those old air cooled VW engines were lucky to make it to
80K miles before pretty worn.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Donald64

I am going to cut an already short filter at the base, remove ALL of the filter's internals and rejoin in a 'short as possible' way it with engineering adhesive ...

I know the cut & shut method using an engineering adhesive will work. I have used it in an earlier 'let's see if my VW ever goes into bypass mode experiment. I opened the filter to fit a micro-switch device. It didn't BTW..


Guess that would make me a bit nervous not knowing if the modified (glued back together) filter can would rupture from the oil pressure, but sounds like you've tried it before on a hot pressurized oil system. Must be some pretty robust adhesive.

Sounds like an interesting experiment. Are you going to measure or document anything as a engine condition baseline before starting the experiment? If it doesn't "blow-up" (which I doubt it will unless the modified filter ruptures and you loose all the oil), then it will be hard to determine the amount of wear over the time period not using the an oil filter.

 

[Donald64]

Thank you guys for the welcome.
So dead in the water, so to speak. Oh well, back to the drawing board or rather to my collection of 'rare' and 'valuable' European filters that didn't physically fit their intended purpose on my Micra despite a promising cross-reference search. I since found that an M6 threaded boss cast into the alloy block causes anything over a 70mm diameter prevents the filter from seating correctly

I have a new Sofegi from eBay that was the equivalent of $2.90 inc delivery that I'll fit in place of the K&N Racing Filter (really a Wix, I believe) tomorrow. It was - the Sofegi - listed as a 'Fram', who own (?) Sofegi anyway.
I've just ordered another and will do a C&P when the new one arrives. I will also dig out my 'UFI' and East European 'Filtron' (Wix?) and chop & post those.
I should have remembered the above examples of filterless (but in some cases equipped with a centrifugal trap in the crank pulley) engines given: thanks, chaps!
BTW the earliest and smallest-engined VAG a 2002 Skoda Fabia, that I used to service, still had a centrifugal separator in the crank pulley, as well as a metal can filter. Its engine dated back to the Skoda Estelle, so was a 1960s engine in a modern 'VW'.
Once again, thank you for stopping me from doing my foolhardy experiment. If it's already been done, there's no point...

 

[Donald64]

Thanks for that ZeeOSix, another good reason not to bother: if there's no control to compare the results with, then it is not really scientific.
I think that the purpose of my the test was to augment the oft-aired opinion that many guys on here overthink and stress too much on the importance of this component on engine longevity. It was to 'prove' to myself that my engine would not be hurt by a reasonable amount of small-particle dirt flowing through the crankshaft and camshaft bearings.
On the other hand, I enjoy looking at oil filter listings on eBay and buying a marvel of engineering and lubrication technology for pennies. I will 'invent' another experiment

 

[Donald64]

By the way, please anyone advise me of any oil filter part number with a 68-70mm can diameter (oil seal close to can diameter) and 3/4 UNF/16 thread size with a length of between 140-200mm. The aim is to increase oil capacity from its current 72mm length and is fitted with an anti drain-back seal. It's for a friend's Micra and has same engine and model as above. I thought that maybe some of you have a better search technique than I.
My search has been fruitless up to now. Thank you in advance.
One more edit. His car has a 3-litre oil capacity, but Nissan went up to 3.5-litre (larger sump) on later models. This was to extend service intervals and that's why he wants the change.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Donald64 - are you sure it's a 3/4 UNF-16 thread? If I use the Fram look-up tool it looks like every Nissan uses a 20mm x 1.5mm thread.

They don't have the Nissan Micra in their list, but that same engine is probably used in one of the US Nissan models(?). Using any look-up tool here in the US probably isn't going to list that vehicle.

http://www.fram.com/search-parts/

 

[Donald64]

Hello, yes it's definitely that thread. I bought a filter marked as that thread - M20 x 1.5 - and it nearly slips over the thread. I know what you mean about most Nissans being that size. One of the few exceptions other than this was the Datsun Sunny Van with OHV diesel.
It had a 1.5 diesel made by Nissan. I serviced one in 1982 when I was an apprentice mechanic. The stores gave me an M20x1.5 oil filter. It seemed to screw on OK, but had a small leak when I started it. I retightened it and all seemed fine. However a few days later it came back again leaking oil. The manager said that I'd simply left it loose. I Knew otherwise. So they sent it out again and of course, it came back leaking oil.
The correct 3/4 UNF filter fixed it. If you enter K12 Micra 1.2 into a UK eBay search, or just enter # 301975154627
you'll see that it is indeed a 3/4 UNF/16 size. I have just gone to the Fram catalogue and I have found a suitable part number, so Thank you for the post, Zee0Six.

 

[Spector]

Although I think your test would have been much more current in terms of more modern manufacturing techniques for engines, more advanced oils etc. I am in the category of those who feel oil filters are like the human appendix, almost obsolete and useless in today's modern engines with today's advanced oils. What debris is produced for the most part is beyond what the ave filter out there can capture, so more of a catastrophic measure than a preventative maintenance measure.

Many years ago I did an experiment on using the same filter for an extend OCI, 12,000 miles. two runs, one I changed the filer half way through the other the same filter for the 12,000 miles. UOA was the same and this was back in the late 1990s. On a well maintained well operating engine I do not feel oil filters really do much of anything and of course, no one has done the long term 200,000 mile study to see if they are usefull at all. Let's do the soccer mom living in a cold climate using 7500 mile OCIs one with no filter the other having the filter changed with the oil and see what the engine looks like after 100,000, 200,000 miles. Unfortunately this will never be done as no one can wait that long for results not to mention the cost. So all we have is our own anecdotal evidence to make assumptions. Doing tests in a test facility to me is useless, not real life.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Donald64
Thanks for that ZeeOSix, another good reason not to bother: if there's no control to compare the results with, then it is not really scientific.
I think that the purpose of my the test was to augment the oft-aired opinion that many guys on here overthink and stress too much on the importance of this component on engine longevity.


Since Zee0Six is one of them, that was a bit tactless.

He'll probably get over it though.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Spector


Many years ago I did an experiment on using the same filter for an extend OCI, 12,000 miles. two runs, one I changed the filer half way through the other the same filter for the 12,000 miles. UOA was the same and this was back in the late 1990s.


Its doubtful if a UOA gives a measure of engine wear. I can't remember what the maximum particle size it detects is (if I ever knew) but its pretty small, whereas the particles trapped by an oil filter are relatively big.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4214553/4

This implies that UOA metal levels wouldn't necessarily be expected to be affected by filtration, so a lack of effect doesn't mean filtration is useless.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Donald64

3. I know the cut & shut method using an engineering adhesive will work. I have used it in an earlier 'let's see if my VW ever goes into bypass mode experiment. I opened the filter to fit a micro-switch device. It didn't BTW...


I'd think there'd be quite a bit of interest in more details on that (though I might not be brave enough to try it myself). Do you have any pictures? Or perhaps a sketch?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Spector
I am in the category of those who feel oil filters are like the human appendix, almost obsolete and useless in today's modern engines with today's advanced oils. What debris is produced for the most part is beyond what the ave filter out there can capture, so more of a catastrophic measure than a preventative maintenance measure.


Based on a lot of photos posted in this forum, I'd hate to see all the junk collected on the dirty side of the filter going around and around 1000s of times in my engines. Today's high efficiency filters catch 99% of everything above 20 microns ... I'll take that, what's it going to hurt.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Donald64
Thanks for that ZeeOSix, another good reason not to bother: if there's no control to compare the results with, then it is not really scientific.
I think that the purpose of my the test was to augment the oft-aired opinion that many guys on here overthink and stress too much on the importance of this component on engine longevity.


Since Zee0Six is one of them, that was a bit tactless.

He'll probably get over it though.


No big deal ... I didn't take it in any negative way. It would have been cool though to see someone do this experiment with some kind of way to determine what the actual effect was on engine internal cleanliness and wear.

 

[CR94]

That would've been an interesting experiment, even without a good control.

What I've seen caught in filters from healthy engines is mostly tiny black specks, carbon I assume. And only rarely a shiny bit. What would recirculating carbon particles do to a bearing? (That's all ignoring the microscopic stuff that some filters might capture.)

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
No big deal ... I didn't take it in any negative way. It would have been cool though to see someone do this experiment with some kind of way to determine what the actual effect was on engine internal cleanliness and wear.


In order for such a test to be meaningful it would require laboratory conditions, not out on the street. The number, composition, size and geometry of the "wear particles" in the oil would have to be tightly controlled. This isn't going to happen on the street. Operating conditions for a vehicle in Lancashire on Tuesday afternoon during a dry spell aren't going to be the same as Lancashire a week later during rain. They won't be the same if one brand of air filter is used over another. What gets into the oil and how it gets there is the most crucial part of such an experiment and that cannot be controlled outside of a laboratory. Without such control any "results" would be meaningless no matter how you obtain those results.

The effect is just the end. By what process the effect is obtained is of primary importance.