Which of the big three in 15W-40 CK4

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With all this talk of reduced zinc and phosphorous, but increased shear stability and other benefits, which of the big three brands is the standout leader? I'm referencing Delo 400, Delvac 1300 and Rotella T4, all 15W-40 flavors. I can't seem to find a PDS on rotella T4. Cummins says 15K OCI are fine, however I do mine at 10K miles since that mileage approaches a year interval and it's easier to keep track of. Current fill is Delvac 1300 CJ4. Needing to change the oil in the next several weeks. Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: atoalson
With all this talk of reduced zinc and phosphorous, but increased shear stability and other benefits, which of the big three brands is the standout leader? I'm referencing Delo 400, Delvac 1300 and Rotella T4, all 15W-40 flavors. I can't seem to find a PDS on rotella T4. Cummins says 15K OCI are fine, however I do mine at 10K miles since that mileage approaches a year interval and it's easier to keep track of. Current fill is Delvac 1300 CJ4. Needing to change the oil in the next several weeks. Thanks.


IMO if you're changing every 10K, anyone of them will be fine. Lately I've leaned towards Delo and Mobil products as they can be easily found at Walmart with relatively good prices in the gallon jugs.

I still have six gallons CJ-4 of Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 in the garage from last May's rebate offer. By the time I run out of that stash Tom over at http://www.pqiamerica.com/ should have VOA's done on a majority of the CK-4 popular brands of 15w40.
 
I believe Rotella still offers an SM rated 15W40. I'm not sure if Mobil Delvac does, but I know Chevron Delo's conventional CK-4 15W40 is an SN dual rated oil.

I'm a bit concerned about the lowered phosphorus in the SN rated HDEO's too. The Sales Rep. at my local Chevron Distributor has moved onto a different company. I was buying the CJ-4 oils from them at a really good price per case. I stopped in just yesterday to buy 3 more cases, but the new Sales Rep can't beat Walmart's prices on gallon jugs of Delo.

So, I went to my local Walmart and bought what I needed for my next pm service, but it's the new CK-4 SN rated stuff. It will be months before I send in a UOA, but when I do, I'll post it in BITOG's HDEO UOA section.

BTW, I'm using it in a Class 8 Semi truck with a pre-epa Detroit Series 60 engine.
 
We need VOA and UOA to see how much zinc are in the different oils. The 30 weight HDEO that have the SN should have the lowered zinc levels. But, the 15W-40 and 5W-40 oils might be a different story.

A VOA of the Delvac Super 1300 15W-40 will show the zinc levels. I am wondering if Mobil will keep it at a higher level. The Mobil 1 TDT 5W-40 is updated for CK-4 and SN, and according to the Product Guide, has 1300 zinc and 1100 phos.

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf
 
So, is it advised that if I can still find some CJ4 to buy it, regardless of brand? Last time I was at Wal-Mart I believe they still had Delo in CJ4.
 
There's varying opinions on the CJ-4 vs CK-4 conventional 15W40's. From what I've seen at my local Walmart, the Delo on the shelves is all the CK-4 stuff. However, I looked at the API donut on the back label of the CK-4 Rotella-T4 15W40, and it doesn't show it's an SN rated oil. So I assume it still contains good levels of zinc and phosphorus. If you're not brand loyal to Chevron Delo, I'd consider the Rotella-T4, or if you can still find the SM rated Delo at a really good price, I'd stock up. Same goes for the CJ-4 version of Mobil Delvac Super 1300 15W40; it's excellent oil IMO.

I know the jury is still out on the CK-4 oils, and I'm hoping Chevron thinks again about offering a new SM rated version of their CK-4 Delo 15W40.

But I'm not brand loyal. I used to use Mobil Delvac products in my Semi, and the reason I switched over to Delo is because my Local Chevron Distributor has a massive supply of CJ-4 oils, but now their prices aren't matching/beating Walmart's. I also switched to Delo because I can find the 10W30 XLE at Walmart at a really good price. I run the 10W30 in the coldest Winter months, and Walmart doesn't stock Delvac Elite, now called Delvac Extreme 10W30.

But I see Walmart offers every variety of Rotella products and at good prices. If my UOA on the Delo CK-4 15W40 comes back looking funky, I'm definitely switching over to Rotella products.

In my opinion, Delvac, Rotella, and Delo are excellent products, save the CK-4 SN dual rated oils, until I see more evidence on them. I base my decisions on price and performance, so I'm watching closely at this time.
 
Originally Posted By: atoalson
With all this talk of reduced zinc and phosphorous, but increased shear stability and other benefits, which of the big three brands is the standout leader? I'm referencing Delo 400, Delvac 1300 and Rotella T4, all 15W-40 flavors. I can't seem to find a PDS on rotella T4. Cummins says 15K OCI are fine, however I do mine at 10K miles since that mileage approaches a year interval and it's easier to keep track of. Current fill is Delvac 1300 CJ4. Needing to change the oil in the next several weeks. Thanks.

Off subject a little bit but you do realize to keep warranty your owners manual States 6 months or 15,000 miles whichever comes first
 
Been a good supply of the Delvac CJ around here and on sale - so just put in gasser.
IMO - current extreme marketing of Rotella has made for good prices on the other two - and hard to wrong with the holy trinity of HDEO ...
 
Originally Posted By: Dak27
save the CK-4 SN dual rated oils, until I see more evidence on them

Cummins disagrees with you.

PC-11 was under R&D for years and millions of miles before being released as CK-4. Any of the oils you've mentioned have demonstrated excellent performance, will carry the Cummins spec (20086), and are fully approved for usage in the ISB6.7 engine. I realize it's difficult to get away from old thinking (more ZDDP = better), but the new generation of additive packages really work well.

P.S. - The Cummins ISB engine test (ASTM D7484) is a part of CK-4. In other words, any CK-4 oil has been validated against the specialized needs of your engine architecture.

Don't let the fear mongering get to you.
grin.gif
 
I see Detroit approves the new CK-4 oils for use in their motors as well. Like I posted previously, I'll be putting CK-4 SN rated 15W40 in my Detroit Series 60 my next pm service, and I'm going to send a sample of the used oil to see how it performed. I prefer doing it this way.
 
Originally Posted By: atoalson
With all this talk of reduced zinc and phosphorous, but increased shear stability and other benefits, which of the big three brands is the standout leader? I'm referencing Delo 400, Delvac 1300 and Rotella T4, all 15W-40 flavors. I can't seem to find a PDS on rotella T4. Cummins says 15K OCI are fine, however I do mine at 10K miles since that mileage approaches a year interval and it's easier to keep track of. Current fill is Delvac 1300 CJ4. Needing to change the oil in the next several weeks. Thanks.


Remember that all 3 of these oils are held to the same standard of wear protection, shear stability, oxidation resistance and soot handling. A CK-4 oil with lower zinc/phosphorus content will give similar levels of performance to those with the higher zinc/phos content. That's because they are all tested using the same engines and bench-marked against the same wear performance.

In my opinion, I like the CK-4/SN and FA-4/SN packages because it represents an evolution in the additive technology. If you think about it, the universal oils are required to meet the same standards with lower zinc/phos, which means whatever ashless dispersant they replaced it with must be pretty awesome technology.
 
Ok, so lets assume there's no more CJ4. On paper does Delo CK4 appear a little better than Delvac CK4? I'm sure our engines would never know the difference but there's some decent difference in specs between the two oils.
 
Originally Posted By: atoalson
Ok, so lets assume there's no more CJ4. On paper does Delo CK4 appear a little better than Delvac CK4? I'm sure our engines would never know the difference but there's some decent difference in specs between the two oils.



I don't know if there's any detailed specs available at this time, if you're referring to VOA's published by PQIA. I've read here that BITOG's Tom in NJ, will publish these findings as they become available.

DNewton has a massive database of UOA's done on CJ-4 HDEOs, and he's stated there's no "Best" among the major brands, when using macro analysis. And not to put words in his mouth, but he's stated many times that VOA's aren't nearly as important as UOA's are, as each oil company uses different formulas to arrive at the same point in regards to engine protection.

I'm a novice to all of this, but I'm learning quite a bit via this site. In my very uneducated opinion, both Delvac and Delo's CJ-4 oils, and Rotella's for that matter, are all such outstanding products, that when used in motors approved for their use, and drained at the engine manufacturer's specified intervals, will provide excellent protection. So take your pick.
 
Originally Posted By: Dak27
Exactly, CK-4.

FA-4 is for new generation motors, as I've read, 2017 motors and beyond.

Detroit has already approved FA-4 back to EPA10 engines (DD13/DD15/DD16).
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Dak27
Exactly, CK-4.

FA-4 is for new generation motors, as I've read, 2017 motors and beyond.

Detroit has already approved FA-4 back to EPA10 engines (DD13/DD15/DD16).


I've read that as well. I have a good friend who drives for a Company I used to drive for. When I was there, their entire fleet had ISX Cummins engines, 13 speed Eaton Fullers, low rpm/high torque engine programming, and they used Delo 15W40. They've since converted their fleet to Cascadia's with DD-15's, and now, they've almost updated the fleet with autoshift transmissions.

He's in a new 2017 Cascadia, and out of curiosity, I've asked him if they've gone to a 10W30 for their fleet, but he forgot to ask when his truck got it's first pm service.

He also told me they're getting in 10 of the new Cascadia's with the more aerodynamic body styles. I actually saw one of these models at the Freightliner dealership yesterday, when I picked my truck up from having the overhead ran in my 60 Series. Kind if a cool looking truck, IMO.

I recently saw one of R.E. West's trucks at a truck stop that was labeled: FA-4 motor oil Test Truck, so they're giving FA-4 a look.

The company my friend drives for is a decent sized fleet that is family owned and operated, and the company was founded sometime in the mid 1940's. I know when I was there they were strictly 15W40 across the board, but I really would like to find out if they've at least switched to CK-4 10W30 semi-syn.

I know they hired a person over Fuel Mileage/Efficiency, who's slowed their fleet down, went to trailer side flaps and Trailer tails, super single drives and trailer tires, low rpm/high torque engine programming, autoshift transmisions, and any other program to boost the fleet's mpg.

IIRC, my friend told me their Fleet's company-wide mpg average was in the mid 8 mpg range, which is pretty impressive, IMO.

Of course, a good portion of the things this company has done isn't applicable to my truck, but it's interesting for me to keep up on it.
 
Originally Posted By: atoalson
... which of the big three brands is the standout leader? I'm referencing Delo 400, Delvac 1300 and Rotella T4, all 15W-40 flavors.



Ummmmmm ......
What makes you think there is a "standout" among the three, or any other brand for that matter?

Please, take some time to read this:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/

Not one person here has enough info to tell you with even a smidgen of a fraction of a guesstimate as to which is a standout, "better" or superior/inferior. CK-4 has been out a short time. No one here has enough time/money to really study this, and answer your question with any clarity or evidence. And frankly I see no reason to believe this most recent level of API cert (CK-4) would have any different true performance delta in the market in terms of brand "best-ness" as any former level. There was no "best" CJ-4, or CI-4+, or ... They are all good. They all are likely to be well more than you need for your application.

That being said, I'm sure several here will bench-race this lube to the nth degree, and either convince you based on their strong subjective influence, or just rub you the wrong way and against their favorite flavor.

When you're done reading that link above, re-read it. Read it until you get the real point.
To prove what is "best" takes HUGE amounts of time and money; not one person here I'm aware of has the pool of resources necessary to prove what is "best" in their own application, let alone everyone else s ... If you cannot do it for yourself, why would you believe that someone else has the ability?


There is zero reason to believe that any CK-4 is going to be so much "better" that it will "stand out" from the others, for any normal person's application.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Dak27
Exactly, CK-4.

FA-4 is for new generation motors, as I've read, 2017 motors and beyond.

Detroit has already approved FA-4 back to EPA10 engines (DD13/DD15/DD16).


Post confirmation article or news that Detroit has approved FA-4 for EPA 2010 DD engines. I have not seen that anywhere. As was stated by others, I have only seen that FA-4 is approved for 2017 engines. Engines require different bearing metallurgy to work with FA-4. Even the newest offering by International, the A26 engine, they are factory filling with CK-4, but only will fill with FA-4 per a request by the buyer. Just was involved in a webinar with the lead engineer on that engine and the CK-4 / FA-4 thing was discussed. I got the gist from what was being said, that they prefer the CK-4 over FA-4 for maximum engine life, but recognize that FA-4 would offer a edge on fuel economy. As a commercial truck owner, that says it all. I will only concern myself with CK-4. Risking a $30,000 engine with FA-4 in the hopes that I can save a few hundred a year in fuel. Not the risk I am willing to take. I can actually save more in fuel by better driving practices, lower rolling resistance tires, better gearing, and other things more than any FA-4 is ever going to be able to deliver. FA-4 is a solution in search of a problem.

I know I have run my first complete OCI on my Detroit 60 with Delvace Extreme 10w30 CK-4 and was very pleased with the results. A slight down tick in all wear numbers by a few points and a little lower oxidation. Viscosity remained totally unchanged. A solid performer. Still same 2 qt oil consumption in 20,000 miles as previously with CJ-4.
 
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