AZjeff
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New Glock 42
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AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Most trainers are cops or former cops. They live, breathe, think and talk like cops.
We are not cops, nor (in most-all walks of life) do we need big guns and double-stack magazines for conceal carry.
We are not here to walk into a bank and attempt to stop two bank robbers. We mind our own business in the bank, unless they turn on us.
Just because you now have a conceal carry doesn't mean you are the guardian of the earth. Mind your own business unless your life is threatened. Banks are insured and can get their lost money back. Don;t try to do it for them.
Single stack with seven shots in 380 is all we (the general public with CCW/CPL) need. Want to carry a backup single stack mag?...... go for it. Want to carry a LCP across your ankle or in your pocket?..... go for it.
But if you feel you must walk the earth with a Clint Eastwood type gun, you've been around too many cops and they have your head in a dangerous situation. You're not trained for their types of situations.
That's why we carry Glock 42s. Because we let cops be cops and citizens be smart citizens and only draw that weapon when in physical danger..... not when a bank robbery occurs and we act stupid about saving that bank their two bags of loot headed out the door.
I love carrying 13-15 ounces of polymer gun and conceal it in my pocket. You can carry all the steel you want and all the ammo you want. But you will never tell me I'm wrong about what size gun and how many bullets I carry as a private citizen.
Not sure where all that came from 777??? Since you quoted me:
My instructor is not a cop, ex or otherwise.
I never mentioned a bank or being guardian of the earth. Bank robbers?
Not interested in Clint Eastwood guns, he seemed to prefer revolvers and 1911s, ammo deficient by design.
Where is the cop when you're confronted by 2 aggressive drunk/high rednecks out in the wilds? You'll rethink 7 rounds of .380 too, guaranteed. Been there. Cops have no duty to protect us, they investigate the aftermath of crimes.
Al seemed to indicate he'd rush a bad guy in hopes of shooting point blank with his .380 to save his barista before he died. No thanks.
And I never said anyone was wrong about their choice. And don't tell me 7 rounds of .380 is all I need as a private citizen. The good thing is most of us could carry a .22 derringer with 1 barrel empty all our lives and never feel the need to draw it.
Most trainers are cops or former cops. They live, breathe, think and talk like cops.
We are not cops, nor (in most-all walks of life) do we need big guns and double-stack magazines for conceal carry.
We are not here to walk into a bank and attempt to stop two bank robbers. We mind our own business in the bank, unless they turn on us.
Just because you now have a conceal carry doesn't mean you are the guardian of the earth. Mind your own business unless your life is threatened. Banks are insured and can get their lost money back. Don;t try to do it for them.
Single stack with seven shots in 380 is all we (the general public with CCW/CPL) need. Want to carry a backup single stack mag?...... go for it. Want to carry a LCP across your ankle or in your pocket?..... go for it.
But if you feel you must walk the earth with a Clint Eastwood type gun, you've been around too many cops and they have your head in a dangerous situation. You're not trained for their types of situations.
That's why we carry Glock 42s. Because we let cops be cops and citizens be smart citizens and only draw that weapon when in physical danger..... not when a bank robbery occurs and we act stupid about saving that bank their two bags of loot headed out the door.
I love carrying 13-15 ounces of polymer gun and conceal it in my pocket. You can carry all the steel you want and all the ammo you want. But you will never tell me I'm wrong about what size gun and how many bullets I carry as a private citizen.
Not sure where all that came from 777??? Since you quoted me:
My instructor is not a cop, ex or otherwise.
I never mentioned a bank or being guardian of the earth. Bank robbers?
Not interested in Clint Eastwood guns, he seemed to prefer revolvers and 1911s, ammo deficient by design.
Where is the cop when you're confronted by 2 aggressive drunk/high rednecks out in the wilds? You'll rethink 7 rounds of .380 too, guaranteed. Been there. Cops have no duty to protect us, they investigate the aftermath of crimes.
Al seemed to indicate he'd rush a bad guy in hopes of shooting point blank with his .380 to save his barista before he died. No thanks.
And I never said anyone was wrong about their choice. And don't tell me 7 rounds of .380 is all I need as a private citizen. The good thing is most of us could carry a .22 derringer with 1 barrel empty all our lives and never feel the need to draw it.
"I love carrying 13-15 ounces of polymer gun and conceal it in my pocket. You can carry all the steel you want and all the ammo you want. But you will never tell me I'm wrong about what size gun and how many bullets I carry as a private citizen"[color:#CC0000][/COLOR]
I also live a half hour north of Detroit and I hear about a lot of instances of citizens defending themselves with firearms, most often without firing a shot or at the most one or two shots. Most do not even make the news but if you watch police incident reports as I do you see quite a few. Unless you are a drug dealer or gang banger I have never heard of an instance where a 5 shot revolver would not have been adequate. Once a situation has escalated to firearms being drawn it is over in a moment. The bad guy or guys either run or shoot and it is over in seconds ,you are either alive, shot, or dead. these shootouts with multiple attackers and reloads just do not happen to ordinary citizens.
I also live a half hour north of Detroit and I hear about a lot of instances of citizens defending themselves with firearms, most often without firing a shot or at the most one or two shots. Most do not even make the news but if you watch police incident reports as I do you see quite a few. Unless you are a drug dealer or gang banger I have never heard of an instance where a 5 shot revolver would not have been adequate. Once a situation has escalated to firearms being drawn it is over in a moment. The bad guy or guys either run or shoot and it is over in seconds ,you are either alive, shot, or dead. these shootouts with multiple attackers and reloads just do not happen to ordinary citizens.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
We are not here to walk into a bank and attempt to stop two bank robbers. We mind our own business in the bank, unless they turn on us.
Just because you now have a conceal carry doesn't mean you are the guardian of the earth. Mind your own business unless your life is threatened.
Single stack with seven shots in 380 is all we (the general public with CCW/CPL) need.
But if you feel you must walk the earth with a Clint Eastwood type gun, you've been around too many cops and they have your head in a dangerous situation. You're not trained for their types of situations.
That's why we carry Glock 42s. Because we let cops be cops and citizens be smart citizens and only draw that weapon when in physical danger.
I love carrying 13-15 ounces of polymer gun and conceal it in my pocket. You can carry all the steel you want and all the ammo you want. But you will never tell me I'm wrong about what size gun and how many bullets I carry as a private citizen.
Pretty much where I weigh in on. People will carry what they feel they need. In the end you much mesh your training with your everyday experience. The chances of you ever really "needing" your firearm are about the same as willing the million+ lottery...especially if you live your life avoiding risky situations. Using the same level of caution, one would be much better off by putting that effort in avoiding being injured in an auto crash. One should own and practice with a portable defibrillator. Risk vs benefit.
Again..I am not trained to get into a shootout. My mindset is one shot.Check my work through the sights and deliver a second (or third) if necessary. Its just almost impossible to need more than that. I don't have the training for more than that.
My trainer who trains police in the Tri-County Area at the Law Enforcement Center at Harrisburg Area Community College and I have discussed the way I operate. If anyone is interested in receiving training from him, PM me. He is the best. He has trained with John McPhee AKA “The Sheriff of Baghdad” and is a former Swat Team leader.
We are not here to walk into a bank and attempt to stop two bank robbers. We mind our own business in the bank, unless they turn on us.
Just because you now have a conceal carry doesn't mean you are the guardian of the earth. Mind your own business unless your life is threatened.
Single stack with seven shots in 380 is all we (the general public with CCW/CPL) need.
But if you feel you must walk the earth with a Clint Eastwood type gun, you've been around too many cops and they have your head in a dangerous situation. You're not trained for their types of situations.
That's why we carry Glock 42s. Because we let cops be cops and citizens be smart citizens and only draw that weapon when in physical danger.
I love carrying 13-15 ounces of polymer gun and conceal it in my pocket. You can carry all the steel you want and all the ammo you want. But you will never tell me I'm wrong about what size gun and how many bullets I carry as a private citizen.
Pretty much where I weigh in on. People will carry what they feel they need. In the end you much mesh your training with your everyday experience. The chances of you ever really "needing" your firearm are about the same as willing the million+ lottery...especially if you live your life avoiding risky situations. Using the same level of caution, one would be much better off by putting that effort in avoiding being injured in an auto crash. One should own and practice with a portable defibrillator. Risk vs benefit.
Again..I am not trained to get into a shootout. My mindset is one shot.Check my work through the sights and deliver a second (or third) if necessary. Its just almost impossible to need more than that. I don't have the training for more than that.
My trainer who trains police in the Tri-County Area at the Law Enforcement Center at Harrisburg Area Community College and I have discussed the way I operate. If anyone is interested in receiving training from him, PM me. He is the best. He has trained with John McPhee AKA “The Sheriff of Baghdad” and is a former Swat Team leader.
Originally Posted By: bradepb
"I love carrying 13-15 ounces of polymer gun and conceal it in my pocket. You can carry all the steel you want and all the ammo you want. But you will never tell me I'm wrong about what size gun and how many bullets I carry as a private citizen"[color:#CC0000][/COLOR]
I also live a half hour north of Detroit and I hear about a lot of instances of citizens defending themselves with firearms, most often without firing a shot or at the most one or two shots. Most do not even make the news but if you watch police incident reports as I do you see quite a few. Unless you are a drug dealer or gang banger I have never heard of an instance where a 5 shot revolver would not have been adequate. Once a situation has escalated to firearms being drawn it is over in a moment. The bad guy or guys either run or shoot and it is over in seconds ,you are either alive, shot, or dead. these shootouts with multiple attackers and reloads just do not happen to ordinary citizens.
Here is a story where a five shot revolver was BARELY enough, and could very well not been had there been an accomplice or a couple misses on the part of the homeowner. However, even a 5 shot will solve the great majority of confrontations. It is always my recomendation that you pick as much gun as you can comfortably carry and shoot. In winter, I carry a 14+1 Steyr M9. In summer I am limited to my Bersa Thunder 380, although I may bump up to a Walther PPS when money allows. This is more a move to consolidate calibers though.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/georgia-mom-shoots-home-intruder-face-article-1.1234400
"I love carrying 13-15 ounces of polymer gun and conceal it in my pocket. You can carry all the steel you want and all the ammo you want. But you will never tell me I'm wrong about what size gun and how many bullets I carry as a private citizen"[color:#CC0000][/COLOR]
I also live a half hour north of Detroit and I hear about a lot of instances of citizens defending themselves with firearms, most often without firing a shot or at the most one or two shots. Most do not even make the news but if you watch police incident reports as I do you see quite a few. Unless you are a drug dealer or gang banger I have never heard of an instance where a 5 shot revolver would not have been adequate. Once a situation has escalated to firearms being drawn it is over in a moment. The bad guy or guys either run or shoot and it is over in seconds ,you are either alive, shot, or dead. these shootouts with multiple attackers and reloads just do not happen to ordinary citizens.
Here is a story where a five shot revolver was BARELY enough, and could very well not been had there been an accomplice or a couple misses on the part of the homeowner. However, even a 5 shot will solve the great majority of confrontations. It is always my recomendation that you pick as much gun as you can comfortably carry and shoot. In winter, I carry a 14+1 Steyr M9. In summer I am limited to my Bersa Thunder 380, although I may bump up to a Walther PPS when money allows. This is more a move to consolidate calibers though.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/georgia-mom-shoots-home-intruder-face-article-1.1234400
The first rule of a gunfight: have a gun
Are there bigger, more effective, guns? Of course, but I'd rather have a J-frame with only 5 shots than use harsh language to stop a threat.
Depending on clothing, hand size, ability to conceal, ability to handle recoil - a Glock 42 might be the perfect fit to meet all of those requirements and still meet the first rule above. A lot of the very compact guns have substantial felt recoil. They weigh less, so that impulse is harder to manage.
I like my G19. If I could conceal it, then it would be a great carry gun, but it's not easy to conceal when you're in summer clothes, or wearing business clothes, or have a smaller frame. In ALL of those cases, the single stack makes more sense because then you HAVE a gun.
My H&K USP Compact (in .40) is a great carry gun. I've been well trained with it. I know it intimately. But if I can't conceal it, and I leave it by the bed stand when I'm out, then it's done me no good. I've failed to meet the first rule.
.380 vs. 9? Well, again, it depends on the needs of the shooter. I really liked both of those Glocks. The 42 has, frankly, less recoil. It's easier to manage.
The chest-thumping of high capacity, big guns as carry pieces comes from a mindset that forgets how the rest of the world lives. If you're a big guy, wearing tactical clothing, and are willing to go through what's needed to carry a big gun - that's fine for you. It's NOT fine, and not appropriate, for a large percentage of the population.
An example: I bought my wife a single stack 9. The Walther CCP. It had noticeably less recoil than the G43. The G43 feels like my 19 and was the gun I was really favoring, but the recoil difference was important to HER. So, we got the gun that she's both likely to carry, and a gun that is small enough for her to conceal...
Thereby meeting the first rule...
So, Al - you mentioned that the other gun, the Shield was too big for you. I think your decision to buy one of the most reliable handguns made, in a size that allows you to carry it, and one with which you're comfortable carrying, is an excellent choice.
Are there bigger, more effective, guns? Of course, but I'd rather have a J-frame with only 5 shots than use harsh language to stop a threat.
Depending on clothing, hand size, ability to conceal, ability to handle recoil - a Glock 42 might be the perfect fit to meet all of those requirements and still meet the first rule above. A lot of the very compact guns have substantial felt recoil. They weigh less, so that impulse is harder to manage.
I like my G19. If I could conceal it, then it would be a great carry gun, but it's not easy to conceal when you're in summer clothes, or wearing business clothes, or have a smaller frame. In ALL of those cases, the single stack makes more sense because then you HAVE a gun.
My H&K USP Compact (in .40) is a great carry gun. I've been well trained with it. I know it intimately. But if I can't conceal it, and I leave it by the bed stand when I'm out, then it's done me no good. I've failed to meet the first rule.
.380 vs. 9? Well, again, it depends on the needs of the shooter. I really liked both of those Glocks. The 42 has, frankly, less recoil. It's easier to manage.
The chest-thumping of high capacity, big guns as carry pieces comes from a mindset that forgets how the rest of the world lives. If you're a big guy, wearing tactical clothing, and are willing to go through what's needed to carry a big gun - that's fine for you. It's NOT fine, and not appropriate, for a large percentage of the population.
An example: I bought my wife a single stack 9. The Walther CCP. It had noticeably less recoil than the G43. The G43 feels like my 19 and was the gun I was really favoring, but the recoil difference was important to HER. So, we got the gun that she's both likely to carry, and a gun that is small enough for her to conceal...
Thereby meeting the first rule...
So, Al - you mentioned that the other gun, the Shield was too big for you. I think your decision to buy one of the most reliable handguns made, in a size that allows you to carry it, and one with which you're comfortable carrying, is an excellent choice.
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Originally Posted By: AZjeff
......I've been in 2 situations in the past 2 years where I went condition red, both times my wife was with me and both times I backed us out. Both involved 2 actors. After the adrenaline wore off and the shakes were over I was glad I had the 19 and not the 43 and a spare mag. I had to have the 43, talked myself into it. Might as well sell it. I learned you can train for all sorts of scenarios but if you have a deal it will probably be something you never thought of.
Rule 1 is have a gun. Rule 2 is have enough gun.
Be safe.
The reality is if every CCW owner went through what you did, Glock 17 & 19 sales would skyrocket, and the 43 would be discontinued.
......I've been in 2 situations in the past 2 years where I went condition red, both times my wife was with me and both times I backed us out. Both involved 2 actors. After the adrenaline wore off and the shakes were over I was glad I had the 19 and not the 43 and a spare mag. I had to have the 43, talked myself into it. Might as well sell it. I learned you can train for all sorts of scenarios but if you have a deal it will probably be something you never thought of.
Rule 1 is have a gun. Rule 2 is have enough gun.
Be safe.
The reality is if every CCW owner went through what you did, Glock 17 & 19 sales would skyrocket, and the 43 would be discontinued.
I've never heard of the one shot, stop and look thing. I think that's a pretty disingenuous teaching, as LEO don't even employ that when threatened. They don't around here anyways. Most fights don't happen at 10 yds @ perfect visibility, how would you "check your work" outside of a headshot? People need to understand that people don't die like in the movies, they don't go down from one shot unless it's a CNS hit. They need to bleed out quickly to stop the threat. Which is HIGHLY unlikely in a few seconds.... with one shot.... from a .380. Stranger things have happened but I'll err on the side of caution. Most instructors I have talked to use the .380 or .38 platforms as a "get off me" gun so to speak. Very close quarters engagement, typically you're looking to empty the gun in their torso and run.
Also, the first FOF SD class I took was enough to show me that pocket carry is an extremely poor method of carry for me. Mainly, it was shown how difficult it is to engage in any sort of retention, being on the ground, standing up, or sitting in a car.
Also, the first FOF SD class I took was enough to show me that pocket carry is an extremely poor method of carry for me. Mainly, it was shown how difficult it is to engage in any sort of retention, being on the ground, standing up, or sitting in a car.
Ooh, I love a good caliber and capacity debate.
1) The most important aspect of surviving a deadly force encounter is to have the mindset, skills, and ability to survive.
1a) Just having a gun does nothing for you, if you lack the skills, ability, and mindset to use it properly for defense.
1b) Give an AR15 to an 80 year old grandma. Give a KaBar knife to a Marine. Have them fight to the death in a cage match. Who do you think wins?
2) Second most important is to actually possess the tools to survive. They can be a gun, knife, impact weapon, broom handle, candlestick holder, or even a martial arts background. Many folks will pick the gun because of its power and ability.
3) 3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time. Doesn't matter if that person is shooting a .22LR pistol or a .50AE. The FIRST accurate shots on target are USUALLY the ones that end the fight and encounter. The person that is shot first is almost always the person that loses. Caliber doesn't matter, usually.
4) A two shot derringer is enough gun for 95% of encounters. A 5 shot j-frame is enough gun for 96% of encounters. A Glock 19 is enough gun for 97% of encounters. An AR15 with 30 round mag is enough gun for 98% of encounters.
I am confident that a Glock 42, in the hands of a competent person, will be enough gun most of the time. Would a Glock 19 be a better fighting gun? Sure. So would an AR15. But most folks are not willing to put the time and effort into concealing a Glock 19. Or willing to wear thicker or more layers of clothes in the summer to properly conceal a G19.
These debates are often pointless. "You carry a G42??!!" GASP!! "You'll surely be killed by a gang of terrorist by weeks end."
1) The most important aspect of surviving a deadly force encounter is to have the mindset, skills, and ability to survive.
1a) Just having a gun does nothing for you, if you lack the skills, ability, and mindset to use it properly for defense.
1b) Give an AR15 to an 80 year old grandma. Give a KaBar knife to a Marine. Have them fight to the death in a cage match. Who do you think wins?
2) Second most important is to actually possess the tools to survive. They can be a gun, knife, impact weapon, broom handle, candlestick holder, or even a martial arts background. Many folks will pick the gun because of its power and ability.
3) 3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time. Doesn't matter if that person is shooting a .22LR pistol or a .50AE. The FIRST accurate shots on target are USUALLY the ones that end the fight and encounter. The person that is shot first is almost always the person that loses. Caliber doesn't matter, usually.
4) A two shot derringer is enough gun for 95% of encounters. A 5 shot j-frame is enough gun for 96% of encounters. A Glock 19 is enough gun for 97% of encounters. An AR15 with 30 round mag is enough gun for 98% of encounters.
I am confident that a Glock 42, in the hands of a competent person, will be enough gun most of the time. Would a Glock 19 be a better fighting gun? Sure. So would an AR15. But most folks are not willing to put the time and effort into concealing a Glock 19. Or willing to wear thicker or more layers of clothes in the summer to properly conceal a G19.
These debates are often pointless. "You carry a G42??!!" GASP!! "You'll surely be killed by a gang of terrorist by weeks end."
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
3) 3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time.
These debates are often pointless. "You carry a G42??!!" GASP!! "You'll surely be killed by a gang of terrorist by weeks end."
You took the words right out of my instructor's mouth. He indicated 90+% though
Funny..I am 71 Y.O. Have had a carrey license for 32 years. I hope to live till the end of the month.
3) 3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time.
These debates are often pointless. "You carry a G42??!!" GASP!! "You'll surely be killed by a gang of terrorist by weeks end."
You took the words right out of my instructor's mouth. He indicated 90+% though
Funny..I am 71 Y.O. Have had a carrey license for 32 years. I hope to live till the end of the month.
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Ooh, I love a good caliber and capacity debate.
1) The most important aspect of surviving a deadly force encounter is to have the mindset, skills, and ability to survive.
1a) Just having a gun does nothing for you, if you lack the skills, ability, and mindset to use it properly for defense.
1b) Give an AR15 to an 80 year old grandma. Give a KaBar knife to a Marine. Have them fight to the death in a cage match. Who do you think wins?
2) Second most important is to actually possess the tools to survive. They can be a gun, knife, impact weapon, broom handle, candlestick holder, or even a martial arts background. Many folks will pick the gun because of its power and ability.
3) 3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time. Doesn't matter if that person is shooting a .22LR pistol or a .50AE. The FIRST accurate shots on target are USUALLY the ones that end the fight and encounter. The person that is shot first is almost always the person that loses. Caliber doesn't matter, usually.
4) A two shot derringer is enough gun for 95% of encounters. A 5 shot j-frame is enough gun for 96% of encounters. A Glock 19 is enough gun for 97% of encounters. An AR15 with 30 round mag is enough gun for 98% of encounters.
I am confident that a Glock 42, in the hands of a competent person, will be enough gun most of the time. Would a Glock 19 be a better fighting gun? Sure. So would an AR15. But most folks are not willing to put the time and effort into concealing a Glock 19. Or willing to wear thicker or more layers of clothes in the summer to properly conceal a G19.
These debates are often pointless. "You carry a G42??!!" GASP!! "You'll surely be killed by a gang of terrorist by weeks end."
Bubbatime usually nails it in these firearm threads and he just did again.
Ooh, I love a good caliber and capacity debate.
1) The most important aspect of surviving a deadly force encounter is to have the mindset, skills, and ability to survive.
1a) Just having a gun does nothing for you, if you lack the skills, ability, and mindset to use it properly for defense.
1b) Give an AR15 to an 80 year old grandma. Give a KaBar knife to a Marine. Have them fight to the death in a cage match. Who do you think wins?
2) Second most important is to actually possess the tools to survive. They can be a gun, knife, impact weapon, broom handle, candlestick holder, or even a martial arts background. Many folks will pick the gun because of its power and ability.
3) 3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time. Doesn't matter if that person is shooting a .22LR pistol or a .50AE. The FIRST accurate shots on target are USUALLY the ones that end the fight and encounter. The person that is shot first is almost always the person that loses. Caliber doesn't matter, usually.
4) A two shot derringer is enough gun for 95% of encounters. A 5 shot j-frame is enough gun for 96% of encounters. A Glock 19 is enough gun for 97% of encounters. An AR15 with 30 round mag is enough gun for 98% of encounters.
I am confident that a Glock 42, in the hands of a competent person, will be enough gun most of the time. Would a Glock 19 be a better fighting gun? Sure. So would an AR15. But most folks are not willing to put the time and effort into concealing a Glock 19. Or willing to wear thicker or more layers of clothes in the summer to properly conceal a G19.
These debates are often pointless. "You carry a G42??!!" GASP!! "You'll surely be killed by a gang of terrorist by weeks end."
Bubbatime usually nails it in these firearm threads and he just did again.
Called Glock. They said its either the Ammo or I am limp wristing. Advised me to grab under the beaver tail as hard as I could. They said 90% of the 42's they get back are fine. That's after telling me that like all Glocks they are dead reliable........but.....the 43 "flexes" a little more than usual.
Wonderful..the Firearm is not at fault. We'll see . I have different ammo. and will get over to the range. If it falters I will send it back. If its not 99% reliable like most Glocks, I will take it to my instructor next month. I will play the game, put a thousand or so rounds down range and if necessary get rid of it.
Wonderful..the Firearm is not at fault. We'll see . I have different ammo. and will get over to the range. If it falters I will send it back. If its not 99% reliable like most Glocks, I will take it to my instructor next month. I will play the game, put a thousand or so rounds down range and if necessary get rid of it.
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
.......3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time. Doesn't matter if that person is shooting a .22LR pistol or a .50AE. The FIRST accurate shots on target are USUALLY the ones that end the fight and encounter..........
I concur with all of this. The issue is how many shots are required to...... "Get shots on target"? In other words, how many times are you as the shooter going to miss? There in lies the problem. The more ammunition you have, the greater chance you are going to have to accomplish this before you run dry. There is no way around the numbers aspect of this. Sure, you can say "practice more". But even then once adrenalin starts flowing all bets are off. Look at police. The numbers show they only connect 28% of the time.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html
"New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report."
So it goes without question having more ammunition on tap is of far more importance, and gives you a much greater advantage, than how much of a bulge your weapon produces under your jacket or cargo shorts.
.......3rd most important aspect, is that if shots are fired, the first person to get shots on target wins 95% of the time. Doesn't matter if that person is shooting a .22LR pistol or a .50AE. The FIRST accurate shots on target are USUALLY the ones that end the fight and encounter..........
I concur with all of this. The issue is how many shots are required to...... "Get shots on target"? In other words, how many times are you as the shooter going to miss? There in lies the problem. The more ammunition you have, the greater chance you are going to have to accomplish this before you run dry. There is no way around the numbers aspect of this. Sure, you can say "practice more". But even then once adrenalin starts flowing all bets are off. Look at police. The numbers show they only connect 28% of the time.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html
"New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report."
So it goes without question having more ammunition on tap is of far more importance, and gives you a much greater advantage, than how much of a bulge your weapon produces under your jacket or cargo shorts.
Originally Posted By: billt460
I concur with all of this. The issue is how many shots are required to...... "Get shots on target"? In other words, how many times are you as the shooter going to miss? There in lies the problem. The more ammunition you have, the greater chance you are going to have to accomplish this before you run dry. There is no way around the numbers aspect of this. Sure, you can say "practice more". But even then once adrenalin starts flowing all bets are off. Look at police. The numbers show they only connect 28% of the time.
Think about this..if you miss a target you are totally incompetent or you are too far away. If you are too far away you are not in a self defense mode...you can hide/run.
A person that is carrying for self defense can not be compared to a cop trying to stop a threat on other people. Do as you will..I will never put lead out of my muzzle that does not have a 100% chance of hitting home. A bullet not hitting home is going where??????? That is the mind set a person armed for self defense should "shoot" (pun) for IMHO. Again..to each his own.
Most people that carry have not thought this serious business through.
I concur with all of this. The issue is how many shots are required to...... "Get shots on target"? In other words, how many times are you as the shooter going to miss? There in lies the problem. The more ammunition you have, the greater chance you are going to have to accomplish this before you run dry. There is no way around the numbers aspect of this. Sure, you can say "practice more". But even then once adrenalin starts flowing all bets are off. Look at police. The numbers show they only connect 28% of the time.
Think about this..if you miss a target you are totally incompetent or you are too far away. If you are too far away you are not in a self defense mode...you can hide/run.
A person that is carrying for self defense can not be compared to a cop trying to stop a threat on other people. Do as you will..I will never put lead out of my muzzle that does not have a 100% chance of hitting home. A bullet not hitting home is going where??????? That is the mind set a person armed for self defense should "shoot" (pun) for IMHO. Again..to each his own.
Most people that carry have not thought this serious business through.
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Originally Posted By: Al
Think about this..if you miss a target you are totally incompetent or you are too far away.
That is nothing but Internet opinion. The facts show police connect only 28% of the time. Less than 3 rounds out of 10. When your life is in danger, and adrenalin starts flowing, you have no idea how you will react. And no amount of "training" can teach you that. All people respond differently. No one is shooting back at you on the range, or in a classroom.
Think about this..if you miss a target you are totally incompetent or you are too far away.
That is nothing but Internet opinion. The facts show police connect only 28% of the time. Less than 3 rounds out of 10. When your life is in danger, and adrenalin starts flowing, you have no idea how you will react. And no amount of "training" can teach you that. All people respond differently. No one is shooting back at you on the range, or in a classroom.
It's true, under stress, perhaps running away from a threat or backpedaling, you are likely to miss some shots. Cops/bad guys have even missed shots from 2 or 3 feet away.
I am much better trained with firearms than an average NYPD officer and would hope that I could get a better hit ratio than 28 percent, but I'll never know until I'm getting robbed of shot at.
I am much better trained with firearms than an average NYPD officer and would hope that I could get a better hit ratio than 28 percent, but I'll never know until I'm getting robbed of shot at.
Originally Posted By: Al
Called Glock. They said its either the Ammo or I am limp wristing. Advised me to grab under the beaver tail as hard as I could. They said 90% of the 42's they get back are fine. That's after telling me that like all Glocks they are dead reliable........but.....the 43 "flexes" a little more than usual.
Wonderful..the Firearm is not at fault. We'll see . I have different ammo. and will get over to the range. If it falters I will send it back. If its not 99% reliable like most Glocks, I will take it to my instructor next month. I will play the game, put a thousand or so rounds down range and if necessary get rid of it.
1) Buy European ammo. Its typically a bit hotter than American ammo, and thus, more reliable, when limp wristing might be occurring. S&B or Italian made Fiocchi are good. Look for the C.I.P logo on the box, which indicates it was loaded to CIP specs, in Europe usually.
2) Grip the gun as high on the back strap as your hand will go.
3) Squeeze the grip as strong as possible. Some trainers will tell you 25%, others 50%, some 75%, but I'm telling you, grip that gun as strong as humanly possible. Squeeze it until your hand starts to shake, and then back off just a smidgen. This is to make your hand/arm as rigid as possible for the sake of determining if you were limp wristing before.
Called Glock. They said its either the Ammo or I am limp wristing. Advised me to grab under the beaver tail as hard as I could. They said 90% of the 42's they get back are fine. That's after telling me that like all Glocks they are dead reliable........but.....the 43 "flexes" a little more than usual.
Wonderful..the Firearm is not at fault. We'll see . I have different ammo. and will get over to the range. If it falters I will send it back. If its not 99% reliable like most Glocks, I will take it to my instructor next month. I will play the game, put a thousand or so rounds down range and if necessary get rid of it.
1) Buy European ammo. Its typically a bit hotter than American ammo, and thus, more reliable, when limp wristing might be occurring. S&B or Italian made Fiocchi are good. Look for the C.I.P logo on the box, which indicates it was loaded to CIP specs, in Europe usually.
2) Grip the gun as high on the back strap as your hand will go.
3) Squeeze the grip as strong as possible. Some trainers will tell you 25%, others 50%, some 75%, but I'm telling you, grip that gun as strong as humanly possible. Squeeze it until your hand starts to shake, and then back off just a smidgen. This is to make your hand/arm as rigid as possible for the sake of determining if you were limp wristing before.
When it come to carrying a weapon for self defense, no positive argument can be made for having less ammunition.
Originally Posted By: billt460
When it come to carrying a weapon for self defense, no positive argument can be made for having less ammunition.
Nope...unless said gun, with more ammunition, is left at home on the nightstand because it was too big to carry/conceal by the person in question.
Which is better: a small amount of ammunition on your person? Or a lot of ammunition in the gun you left at home?
When it come to carrying a weapon for self defense, no positive argument can be made for having less ammunition.
Nope...unless said gun, with more ammunition, is left at home on the nightstand because it was too big to carry/conceal by the person in question.
Which is better: a small amount of ammunition on your person? Or a lot of ammunition in the gun you left at home?
Quote:
1) Buy European ammo. Its typically a bit hotter than American ammo, and thus, more reliable, when limp wristing might be occurring. S&B or Italian made Fiocchi are good. Look for the C.I.P logo on the box, which indicates it was loaded to CIP specs, in Europe usually.
2) Grip the gun as high on the back strap as your hand will go.
3) Squeeze the grip as strong as possible. Some trainers will tell you 25%, others 50%, some 75%, but I'm telling you, grip that gun as strong as humanly possible. Squeeze it until your hand starts to shake, and then back off just a smidgen. This is to make your hand/arm as rigid as possible for the sake of determining if you were limp wristing before.
Thanks..I do have GECO which is CIP.
Also thanks again. Those are two of the things my trainer tells me. I do need improvement on the trigger work. I tend to drop the sight just slightly before the trigger is pressed.
My plan is to put a couple hundred more rounds through it...and depending...Send it back. I have the shipping label. When I get it back I'llj see what the result is. Before I send it back again I will take it to my April training session.
1) Buy European ammo. Its typically a bit hotter than American ammo, and thus, more reliable, when limp wristing might be occurring. S&B or Italian made Fiocchi are good. Look for the C.I.P logo on the box, which indicates it was loaded to CIP specs, in Europe usually.
2) Grip the gun as high on the back strap as your hand will go.
3) Squeeze the grip as strong as possible. Some trainers will tell you 25%, others 50%, some 75%, but I'm telling you, grip that gun as strong as humanly possible. Squeeze it until your hand starts to shake, and then back off just a smidgen. This is to make your hand/arm as rigid as possible for the sake of determining if you were limp wristing before.
Thanks..I do have GECO which is CIP.
Also thanks again. Those are two of the things my trainer tells me. I do need improvement on the trigger work. I tend to drop the sight just slightly before the trigger is pressed.
My plan is to put a couple hundred more rounds through it...and depending...Send it back. I have the shipping label. When I get it back I'llj see what the result is. Before I send it back again I will take it to my April training session.
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