30w in a 20w engine (2GR-FKS)

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
Credit goes to where credit is due... XWHTHS is a Shannow concept.

Yes, credit to Shannow on that idea.

A trivial modification I would suggest is XW(HTHS x10), then it would be similar to the old grades for the general consumer.

Using the HTHS values above:

Edge 5W30 A3/B4 becomes Edge 5W36

M1 0W40 FS becomes M1 0W36

M1 5W30 becomes M1 5W31

M1 5W20 becomes M1 5W28 (rounding up)





This is a great idea and I believe BITOG should adopt this system. Doubt it will ever gain mainstream use, even though "dino" oil did.

 

[SR5]

Yes and under this XW-(HTHSx10) system some oils stay exactly the same e.g.
M1 10W30 is still M1 10W30
GTX 15W40 is still GTX 15W40

Nice.

 

[homeyclaus]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
2 things. 1. The 0w-20 is café driven. 2. If your motor doesn't burn the 0W-20 then the 0w-20 won't harm your engine. Jmo.


1. You make it sound like until CAFE came along, the consumer didn't care about fuel economy, and that people who cared more about startup wear for their drive to the café didn't exist. I find that odd. So pre-1990 we all got 8 mpg?

2. True.

 

[FZ1]

Didn't say all that.The Café requirements are greater than the mfgs can timely meet so we end up with Turbos in economy cars and increasingly thin oils to max out cafe testing results to the exclusion of long term durability. Ever try to remove a turbo so that you can change your spark plugs?

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Didn't say all that.The Café requirements are greater than the mfgs can timely meet so we end up with Turbos in economy cars and increasingly thin oils to max out cafe testing results to the exclusion of long term durability. Ever try to remove a turbo so that you can change your spark plugs?

Aren't most of these inline-4s with plugs accessible from the top?

Granted - I've got a Subaru, but the difficulty in changing the spark plugs comes from the boxer configuration. The turbo is right against the firewall.

 

[FZ1]

The Honda 1.5 turbo looks to be sitting over the top of the engine.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
The Honda 1.5 turbo looks to be sitting over the top of the engine.

The pictures of the Fiat 1.4 turbo look like the big hassle is removing all the hoses sitting on the valve cover. A Chevy Cruze 1.4 turbo looks easy. Remove the plastic cover and then the combined coil pack. I've never come across multiple direct injection coils before.



I saw some pictures of a Honda 1.5 turbo. What's the issue?

 

[homeyclaus]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Didn't say all that.The Café requirements are greater than the mfgs can timely meet so we end up with Turbos in economy cars and increasingly thin oils to max out cafe testing results to the exclusion of long term durability. Ever try to remove a turbo so that you can change your spark plugs?


You kinda did, there. CAFE contributes, probably. But people wanting better mileage contributes more. 8 mpg vehicles no longer sell all that well.

I have had to remove an intake manifold to change plugs on a Cadillac Catera (aka Opel Optima) in the mid 90's. And it's sure a royal pain to do plugs on a '03 Eurovan if you don't, especially if you fumble a plug. So it's not really a novel idea in terms of inconveniencing the **** out of the customer's wallet and the mechanic doing the work.

 

[4WD]

That Cruze video looks so easy I'm shamed into changing them as I approach 90k ...

 

[FZ1]

The box on top of the engine which appears to have to be removed to access the spark plugs. I change and torque my own plugs.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
That Cruze video looks so easy I'm shamed into changing them as I approach 90k ...

It's still a bunch of bolts to remove. My first plug replacement was for a 1989 Acura Integra. That was simply boots on the valve cover. Before then I paid someone to change the plugs. They charged for 6 minutes of labor.

My 1995 Integra GS-R was more involved. That had a cover on top of the plug boots. The first time I tried checking it, I overtorqued the nut and snapped this weird bolt underneath. I later got a factory service manual and saw the recommended torque was 8 lb-ft. The part cost $5, but it was a pain trying to find a dealer that had it. But it was so easy that I would occasionally check the platinum plugs for erosion and put them back in. I don't care to do that with my WRX.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
The box on top of the engine which appears to have to be removed to access the spark plugs. I change and torque my own plugs.

This one?

Looks like a pain to access anything inside, but the coil packs looks pretty easy to remove.

 

[4WD]

Think the Cruze has pretty much a disposable plastic valve cover since the PCV is integral ... so that might the time to do all ...

 

[FZ1]

Thanks. I was looking at the CRV 1.5 which has the big box on top of the turbo motor. I did not know that there was a difference between the CRV 1.5 vs. Civic 1.5 motor top had you not shown the other motor. The CRV has a Resonator On the top of the turbo motor and the Civic does not. Thanks,again.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: NissanHauler
Does Toyota spec a 30w for the 2GR-FKE engine outside of the US?


Mobil 1 0w40 FS is recommended in Germany, not a bad choice IMO.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Thanks. I was looking at the CRV 1.5 which has the big box on top of the turbo motor. I did not know that there was a difference between the CRV 1.5 vs. Civic 1.5 motor top had you not shown the other motor. The CRV has a Resonator On the top of the turbo motor and the Civic does not. Thanks,again.

OK. I found a photo of that, and that has got to be the most insane thing I've ever seen from an inline engine. Easy access to the valve cover and spark plugs has always been a big benefit of overhead cam inline engines.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Just like you knew that thinner oils tend to flow better at start up and before operating temps and carry away the byproducts of cold combustion faster.


Got a (cherry picked pseudoscience even) link to something that deomonstrates that behaviour ???


Do you have any from 1942 I can borrow?

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Have you ever been to New Hampshire?

Do you really think any of this matters? My brother had over a meter of snow there...

FFS, this isn't the outback, but I suspect most Aussies don't really live in extreme heat conditions either...


Will the 20 OR the 30 provide greater start-up wear protection for your brother in all that snow ?


(Given that for argument's sake, both are 0W, which appears to be appropriate for the region).


IDK, Snow in itself doesn't have much to do with it, but are we talking synthetic apples-to-apples? I'd go with a 0W-20 in most cases unless not specified by the OEM.

Quote:
For that matter, what if it was a 0W50, what would you suggest is likely to happen in that instance with start-up wear ?


IDK, none are generally available here, and I can't imagine any being spec'd save for some Ford performance applications that call for 5W-50...

As to Aussies, outback, and not suspecting, what's your definition of extreme heat ?

Quote:
Sydney is a pretty decent population centre, and while it isn't outback, had a fair but of high tmperatures this year

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/nsw/sydney.shtml

47C is pretty warm, but only a 1 off.


I honestly thought Sydney's temps were more moderated by the ocean, but okay, it's hotter than I thought and I'd go for the thicker side of things...

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Shannow
For that matter, what if it was a 0W50, what would you suggest is likely to happen in that instance with start-up wear ?


IDK, none are generally available here, and I can't imagine any being spec'd save for some Ford performance applications that call for 5W-50...

The odd thing about 0W-X oils is that the 0W end only describes flow at some supremely low Arctic (or Antarctic) temperature. I would expect that a 0W-50 oil would probably be thicker than a 5W-20 oil at typical summer temperatures around where I live.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Didn't say all that.The Café requirements are greater than the mfgs can timely meet so we end up with Turbos in economy cars and increasingly thin oils to max out cafe testing results to the exclusion of long term durability. Ever try to remove a turbo so that you can change your spark plugs?


That's a silly blanket statement. If you mean the Civic, the turbo generates nearly 180HP, IIRC. Ten or 15 years ago, that's not economy that's performance in a small car. Honda isn't just going for fuel economy, they're competing in a tough segment against Mazda, which has run circles around them for two decades in terms of performance and driveability. The issue isn't the turbo scorching the "thin oils" in the Honda, the issue is fuel dilution! An entirely different issue from your tired old CAFE conspiracy stuff...