Which oil, CI-4+ or CK-4

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malloj

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Yakima, WA
Morning all,

I'd like opinions for my next OCI, coming up here in a few months. As Amsoil has killed off their CJ-4 line and moved to the CK-4 lineup, but continue to make a CI-4+ option I could go either forward to their new DEO or go backward to the tried and true AME. We get occasional runs of below zero temps here in Central WA in the winter and I tow a bit during the summer, which makes me consider the DEO, although I'd save a few bucks with the AME. I'm currently at 15k with the old DEO and will run it out to at least 20k miles and will do the same moving forward.

Thanks
 
I recently did an OCI in my remanned 2000 Detroit 60 12.7L using a Delvac Extreme 10w30 syn blend that is CK-4. The UOA looked as good as any of the dozens before in that engine that now has 669,000 miles on the reman. Fact is, some of the wear numbers were a few points lower and it held viscosity perfectly over the 20K mile OCI moving up to 80K lb of truck and freight. The oil cost me about $14 a gallon. Just go with a CK-4 and rest easy. I typically use 10w30 in the winter with this truck and 15w40 in the summer. Both syn blends.
 
CK4 is fine as long as it is not SN. I'd be all over that CI though
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Originally Posted By: Dyusik
CK4 is fine as long as it is not SN. I'd be all over that CI though
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Ck4 is sn. Cj4 was sm
 
hog wash!!! sn oil is fine, hasnt hurt my engines. in fact, any that meet the spec are safe.
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Ck4 is sn. Cj4 was sm

There were CJ-4/SN options, generally seen when the product was introduced sometime after the official CJ-4 rollout. Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 was a prime example, being CJ-4/SN.
 
Thanks for the input, I have seen your success with the new oils, one of the reasons I would go with it
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
CK4 is fine as long as it is not SN. I'd be all over that CI though
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Ck4 is sn. Cj4 was sm


Well, not quite. Many of the new CK-4 oils are not even claiming a PCMO spec... SM or SN. The Delvac Extreme 10w30 CK-4 I used doesn't. The Schaeffer 711 CK-4 I am using doesn't either. There a a few CK-4 oils making a PCMO claim, but not a lot.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
CK4 is fine as long as it is not SN. I'd be all over that CI though
20.gif



Ck4 is sn. Cj4 was sm


Well, not quite. Many of the new CK-4 oils are not even claiming a PCMO spec... SM or SN. The Delvac Extreme 10w30 CK-4 I used doesn't. The Schaeffer 711 CK-4 I am using doesn't either. There a a few CK-4 oils making a PCMO claim, but not a lot.


The Delvac Extreme does not have the SN spec. It is interesting because the Delvac Super does have the SN, even the Delvac 1 5W-30 has SN, but, not the Extreme. The Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 when it was CJ-4 had the SM spec, now that it is CK-4, the S spec is gone.

I just checked the data sheet on the Delvac ESP 5W-40, no S specs listed. Yet, they left the part where it says it can be used in "•High performance gasoline engines and mixed fleets"

https://mobildelvac.com/en/engine-oils/mobil-delvac/mobil-delvac-extreme
 
Last edited:
What is different with diesel oils that have only diesel specs on them versus the dual rated oils that have both diesel and gasoline specs on them?
 
Originally Posted By: njohnson
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
CK4 is fine as long as it is not SN. I'd be all over that CI though
20.gif



Ck4 is sn. Cj4 was sm


Well, not quite. Many of the new CK-4 oils are not even claiming a PCMO spec... SM or SN. The Delvac Extreme 10w30 CK-4 I used doesn't. The Schaeffer 711 CK-4 I am using doesn't either. There a a few CK-4 oils making a PCMO claim, but not a lot.


The Delvac Extreme does not have the SN spec. It is interesting because the Delvac Super does have the SN, even the Delvac 1 5W-30 has SN, but, not the Extreme. The Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 when it was CJ-4 had the SM spec, now that it is CK-4, the S spec is gone.

I just checked the data sheet on the Delvac ESP 5W-40, no S specs listed. Yet, they left the part where it says it can be used in "•High performance gasoline engines and mixed fleets"

https://mobildelvac.com/en/engine-oils/mobil-delvac/mobil-delvac-extreme


And fleet users are going to do what they have done all along. Many of them use the same oil across their vehicle platforms. Been that way for decades and all this oil change stuff going on and OEM's playing there own little spec games will not change that much. And the OEM's are not really putting the heavy hand down on fleets for doing things outside the box. As long as it doesn't reach the level of absurdity.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Well, not quite. Many of the new CK-4 oils are not even claiming a PCMO spec... SM or SN. The Delvac Extreme 10w30 CK-4 I used doesn't. The Schaeffer 711 CK-4 I am using doesn't either. There a a few CK-4 oils making a PCMO claim, but not a lot.

For whatever reason, the Delvac blend 10w-30 in CJ-4 didn't claim SM or SN, either.

njohnson: I really can't think of a reason why an oil would skip that for a CJ-4 oil. A formulator would have to answer that one, or their marketing department. As TiredTrucker points out, fleets are going to do what they always did, and successfully, to boot.
 
Yep been using that. -7 f never plugged . It started right away .first to. I heard the valve (ever) lasted 6 second then all went quiet) insanely good. But this isn't a racing oil . Cor low rpm ? Sub 3500 rpm? Awesome oil for higher rev ? Might need to look eslewhere
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker

And fleet users are going to do what they have done all along. Many of them use the same oil across their vehicle platforms. Been that way for decades and all this oil change stuff going on and OEM's playing there own little spec games will not change that much. And the OEM's are not really putting the heavy hand down on fleets for doing things outside the box. As long as it doesn't reach the level of absurdity.


Yeah, think bus fleets. They have diesel for outlying areas, CNG for inner-urban areas and high smog zones, and gas mini-buses for ADA and special needs groups. They buy fleet oil by the truck load, I know, I used to haul to them - 5,000 gallons a pop. One oil, whole fleet. Same for delivery companies.

Their buy volume makes this whole board look like a kiddy playground. They go through volumes per week that equals our whole ranch per year. They have UOA's out the wazoo and they know when an oil should come off their list.

Exxon/Mobil, SOPUS and Chevron care a lot about what those folks want and need. They are not going to deliver a bad product that will take out a $10K ~ $40K engine. Ain't goinna happen.

And the OEM MFG's will not deny a warranty for oil. The fleet mechanics are certified and they can write up a cause report as well as anyone. The oil delivered will work as advertised. If not, FedEx's lawyers can make life uncomfortable for Chevron. They are big boys and they know how to play
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: yvon_la
Yep been using that. -7 f never plugged . It started right away .first to. I heard the valve (ever) lasted 6 second then all went quiet) insanely good. But this isn't a racing oil . Cor low rpm ? Sub 3500 rpm? Awesome oil for higher rev ? Might need to look eslewhere

I'm sure it's fine for most any reasonable application. It's not a race oil, but has more than enough approvals on it, not to mention the low phosphorus, for all kinds of use. The price is right, too.
 
Originally Posted By: Killer223
hog wash!!! sn oil is fine, hasnt hurt my engines. in fact, any that meet the spec are safe.


SN means it will have 800ppm phosphorus

CK4 without SN means 1200ppm phosphorus
 
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