Rubbish advice on BITOG these days...

[BrocLuno]

The real problem we have here is not mixers - it's fan boys. All the folks who come on here and say mines is better than yours w/o any proof what so ever ... The M1 guys are in the lead, followed by the AmsOil crowd, then the RP folks, etc.

Their constant drone is often not helping some folks get the answers they want ... [Notice I did not say "need". Some folks just want an answer to make them feel better about what they are going to do anyway - so give it to them

]

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
OK, I'll buy that one, but how many BITOGers are running ships engines ... I never worked on a ships system where we were changing 1,000~5,000 gallons of lube oil where we did not do a lab analysis of the top-out if a gradual change.

And almost every time it was because of a system failure that contaminated the oil. The TBN was blown by the time we got to it. But, ships have to make maintenance ports where they have access to contracted work. So you do emergency repairs, top-in 500 gallons and off they go. They will get proper fixes and new oil as soon as possible. And they have a lab sheet that says what the issue was/is, and that the mix will work ...

That has nothing to do with a 5 qt car system, or even a 10 gallon truck system ...


See, that's part of the problem...yes, there's an example, but it has nothing to do with cars/trucks.

Same principals apply, largely the same additives for the same reasons, just more emphasis on certain aspects in certain formulations...

The advice "never have a problem", and "no-one has ever posted evidence" are clearly wrong.

http://papers.sae.org/2000-01-2942/
http://papers.sae.org/2000-01-2944/
http://papers.sae.org/932831/

Two car papers and a tractor.

Truth is that issues are rare (rare is infinitely more common than non existent).
Truth is that the majority of impacts are at the extreme cold end, where the "W" rating is most seriously affected, thus my initial comment that the worst is that two 0Ws aways equal a 0W.
Truth is that any negative interaction can be avoided for less the $10.

Moderate climate, moderate useage, and moderate oil changes, the end user will "likely" never see an issue (unless those unfortunate taxi operators (still trying to refind the paper) where the mix didn't allow the oil to pump even at freezing).

I'm not discounting your experience, by any means, but blanket "mix away" statements without qualifiers is IMO poor advice.

BTW, never gets below -8C here, and I mix....within the lines of the Pennzoil advice on the main page (stay within product lines), and advice from a guy involved in creating the product line that I use....

Quote:
It's an interesting one. Certainly no guarantee of 0W being achieved but without knowing the oils it's difficult. Often PPDs are universal across an additive suppliers range. But if you had two oils with different DI, PPD and VII you might cause problems with used oil. Even if Ccs is ok for 0W

MRV can also run into problems when certain VMs are combined with other PPDs.

In my own car I will only top up with oils using the same additive system. (Diff grade can be ok if I'm desperate ) but I want to ensure no issues. (Eg silicates and sulphonate detergents mixing are not ideal either)

 

[ndfergy]

Stallion out, pony in for a stretch? However, I do enjoy reading your posts.

Hot oil changes for me. The faster it flows the better chance of draining from level, or near level, surfaces.

Pet peeves: If someone makes a recommendation that makes sense, don't muddy the waters with your own preference that may confuse the poster.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
The real problem we have here is not mixers - it's fan boys. All the folks who come on here and say mines is better than yours w/o any proof what so ever ... The M1 guys are in the lead, followed by the AmsOil crowd, then the RP folks, etc.

Their constant drone is often not helping some folks get the answers they want ... [Notice I did not say "need". Some folks just want an answer to make them feel better about what they are going to do anyway - so give it to them

]



I agree. Everyone has their favorite oil but trying to push your brand here does put people off.

 

[userfriendly]

I think engine oils like 0W40 & 5W50 are too complicated for blending with other multi grade oils.
Blending 0WXX with another 0WXX will quite likely result in a 5WXX when fresh, and who knows what at drain time.
Even licensed engine oils are allowed to slip a W grade in use.

I often mix straight grades into multi grade engine oils to thicken or thin for a target HTHS, but in doing so, discard cold performance expectations.
Or at least, cut them in half.

For example, 20% SAE 50 added to 10W30 makes what?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Nothing wrong with draining the oil when it's cold (say ambient temp is 50 deg F or above). It all drained back to the oil pan while hot, so you're basically just draining the oil pan volume. Just let it drain longer until it stops dripping. Same result in the end.

 

[BrocLuno]

As far as offering mixology approvals, I may have slipped one in north of Texas, but I don't think so... I look for the OP's location. If TX or LA or AZ or CA (baring Truckee/Susanville) I usually say mix away.

Why, because they are in benign climates, they say the vehicle is in good order, they are only going to drive 5K, etc. Most often they could survive on SAE 30 and live to tell about it.

I would not tell our Canadian friends to do that (usually)... Or folks who live in Minnesota, or even Maryland in the winter.

Others are garage kept and only get run in nice weather. Knowing that, what's the big deal...

These are NOT blanket statements. They are targeted answers. I agree that some are making blanket statements, but anyone who is not skeptical of such, should be ...

 

[Dallas69]

I agree that folks living in very cold areas should do some research on what to do.
I live in Texas where we have maybe 2 weeks of winter.

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

Well, 99.9 percent of BITOGers are just armchair mechanics.

 

[userfriendly]

An armchair mechanic is a person that fixes armchairs.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Never blew up in 300,000 miles means doing something OK. Or, in the case of the diesel trucks, coming up on 1,000,000 miles.

Of course, these aren't issues in a vehicle that spends the majority of its life running, never testing the limits of cold cranking, and probably isn't run out to its absolute limits, either, from a condemnation perspective. Realistically, it's pretty hard to screw up maintenance on a big truck if you pay at least lip service to the OEM recommendations.

 

[BrocLuno]

True, except for the fact that most of the ranch trucks have been hot-rodded some. Big Cam Cummins are all over 400 HP. Most are making 30 psi off pulse turbo's. Even the gas trucks get breathed on. the reason is simple, they need more power

Ranch fleet maintenance costs come right off the top for tax purposes, so it makes no sense to just OEM anything ... Even the tractor motors get leaned on. Got an old Cletrac flat-head 6 gas tractor with the head shaved 0.030". Blew a head gasket in its 40th year. Had to do the surfaces anyway, so why not ... Commercial tractor gas is better than it was in the 1940's. Might as well take advantage

Wish I had a 8V-92 Silver to tweak on. Well, not really as I'm too busy with other life stuff like elder care (Pop's 97 1/2 and my responsibility every other weekend). He's a just fix it cheap guy. I'm not. I'm a fix it better guy. If it broke, there was something not right. Figure out what and fix that too ...

the passenger cars and light trucks are something different. Since they will be driven by wife's and hired help on public roads, they stay pretty stock to reduce liability. But a D-7 plow tractor - naw it's goinna get something. Maybe we can plow that 2,000 acres of Oats in a higher gear and save two days ...

It's all balance. And it's experience. So yeah, maybe I have just been around to long and seen that little bad happens 99% of the time. I don't freak out if it's not in a book somewhere. Just stare at it and see where it takes you

When I was 16 working in a Phillips Station I would really question the owners intent in pouring all the oil drippings from the change cans into a big bottle and then running it in the service truck, or giving it away to a single mom who needed some work done. He'd say he'd been doing it for 20 years. Never and issue. Now I've been doing it for forty years when I have some of this and some of that left over (new oil)- still no problem ... But I don't live where you do ...

 

[4WD]

For those too young to remember an 8V92 ...today they'd have been recorded on YouTube just for the sound ...

 

[userfriendly]

No thanks, I had 25 years of 16V645's then another 15 years of GE AC44's

 

[BrocLuno]

My BIL is a certified Detroit 2-stroke expert. Retired as a big buss mechanic. Built a zillion 8V92's. We reminisce about building an OTR truck to go scrounge fun projects based on a seriously breathed on 8V92 in the 650 HP range and a killer Allison behind it so we can creep through traffic with getting clutch leg

Not goinna happen as we have way too much real stuff to do, but fun to think about ...

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Never blew up in 300,000 miles means doing something OK. Or, in the case of the diesel trucks, coming up on 1,000,000 miles.

Of course, these aren't issues in a vehicle that spends the majority of its life running, never testing the limits of cold cranking, and probably isn't run out to its absolute limits, either, from a condemnation perspective. Realistically, it's pretty hard to screw up maintenance on a big truck if you pay at least lip service to the OEM recommendations.


But the OEM's and fleets recommend shutting off the truck during down times. I do with mine as well. So the testing the limits of cold cranking does come into play somewhat.

 

[Garak]

Certainly, and under certain weather conditions and usage patterns. Given block heaters, Webastos, oil pan heaters, and so forth, I'd wonder how often someone really tries to start a big diesel that's been sitting in the -35 C temperatures for long enough to reach ambient through and through.

 

[KL31]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Nothing wrong with draining the oil when it's cold (say ambient temp is 50 deg F or above). It all drained back to the oil pan while hot, so you're basically just draining the oil pan volume. Just let it drain longer until it stops dripping. Same result in the end.


I was thinking about that the other day and I agree if engine is warm, It would mostly all drain to the pan so what difference would it make draining when cold? Maybe in freezing weather with a car that uses 50 grade, you might warm things up first but most are on 0-5W 20-30 grade.

 

[nitehawk55]

Seeing by the amount of posts some have I think they spend way too much time on here .

Too much worry on here about what oil and filter to use , which is best and what additives should be used .

It's the OCD forum .

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Seeing by the amount of posts some have I think they spend way too much time on here .

Too much worry on here about what oil and filter to use , which is best and what additives should be used .

It's the OCD forum .


Maybe. The best discussions seem to occur when there's a fundamental change going on. Right now, many conversations are repetitive: all oils are pretty darn good, oil life monitors work and the manufacturer-specified viscosity is almost always fine.

Expect more meaningful and new discussions when GF-6 and 0w-16 oils are introduced. And when DI/TGDI engines are more commonplace I expect we'll learn lots more about the consequences (if any) of fuel dilution and intake valve deposits.