UK grid already feeling the effect of electric car

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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/...d-side-response

Quote:
Electric cars are putting increasing pressure on the UK’s power grids, making it vital they are recharged at the right time of day, a minister has said.

John Hayes, transport minister, said it was important that such battery-powered cars were topped up in smart ways to avoid unduly stressing the energy system.

He said he hoped the accelerating uptake of electric cars, which registration figures show are growing faster than conventional new cars, could catalyse a wider debate on how best to manage the UK’s energy demand.

“We know the demand for electric vehicles places the national grid under pressure. It’s critically important – we are working on this. It’s particularly important that we charge smart, so we flex demand and take advantage of spare capacity,” Hayes told an audience in London.

The minister joked that a competition to design a better-looking electric car charger could see the winning entry nicknamed the “Hayes hook-up”.

Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks, which runs local power grids in Scotland and southern England, said its electric car programmes found most owners charged their batteries immediately after returning home from work. That coincides with when energy demand is already at its highest point in the day, which has led the company to trial time-shifting the charging to miss the peak.

The utility said such “demand-side response”, where a car may not start charging until a few hours after a driver has plugged it in, when demand is lower, could alleviate much of the cost of power network upgrades required to cope with electric vehicles. However, most of the UK’s existing 10,000-plus charging points do not have such technology.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I see an "battery car environmental tax" imposed on recharging during the day by the the pointy heads.

Agreed, I can't jmagine owning an electric car, needed to recharge before a drive, and being unable to due to the grid.

Who know they may regulate the power outlet of each home with locked timers
 
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Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I see an "battery car environmental tax" imposed on recharging during the day by the the pointy heads.

Agreed, I can't jmagine owning an electric car, needed to recharge before a drive, and being unable to due to the grid.

Who know they may regulate the power outlet of each home with locked timers


"They" will have to do something for sure.

I can't see anyone actually STOPPING you from charging your car for a much needed trip, but with peak wholesale electricity prices of 20c to 50c/KWh, you can bet that will be carried through to those charging EVs, as it should during a peak.

Charge it at 11PM, off peak(*), and pay much lower, like off peak hot water and heat banks.

(*) as more renewables come in with storage, "off peak" could very well be midday in 10-15 years time, and overnight be "peak" to cover the costs of storage.
 
There are already dish washers, storage heaters and washing machines, that have timers to take advantage of lower cost off peak electricity. It only makes sense that cars take a charge during off peak periods.
 
Originally Posted By: expat
There are already dish washers, storage heaters and washing machines, that have timers to take advantage of lower cost off peak electricity. It only makes sense that cars take a charge during off peak periods.


+1
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Incentivize people with lower night rates is all it would take to help this problem.


Nope, night is going to be the expensive time in the next 10-15 years...incentivising them to do it now is sensible, but then you'll have to turn them around later.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

Quote:
The minister joked that a competition to design a better-looking electric car charger could see the winning entry nicknamed the “Hayes hook-up”.


There's a joke about Lucas in there, but I'm not sure what it is.

We use to have a mechanical timer, mounted next to the power meter, that only let our electric domestic water heater run off-peak. It was a pain. Sometimes the hot water would run out, and you were out of luck. I'd guess off-peak control of car charging would run into the same problem. Hop in your electric car and be disappointed it wasn't charged. It's a thorny problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Incentivize people with lower night rates is all it would take to help this problem.

Nope, night is going to be the expensive time in the next 10-15 years...incentivising them to do it now is sensible, but then you'll have to turn them around later.

Currently, during the summer, day time use of air conditioners is the real load 'peak' demon. All other seasons and times are nothing by comparison.
I wonder how much the reduced use of incandescent lighting (LED and CFL now) at night has cut night loads. Maybe enough to recharge electric cars at night.
My electric car only draws about 1.2 kW at night, all night long I might add. Not much really.

Its the Teslas and Bolts drawing 6.6 kW (all night), and more in some cases, that appear to be the trend & the problem.
 
This is the very reason that electric vehicles can't grow quickly to be a large percentage of the total. The electrical generation and distribution infrastructure just can't cope. Ironically any additional spare generation capacity currently available is the least "green" in terms of emissions and the most expensive per kWh. It seems to me that whenever government policy is influenced by the green lobby in the form of subsidies to skew the market, then the result is an expensive stuff up and the tax payer has to pay the bill.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I see an "battery car environmental tax" imposed on recharging during the day by the the pointy heads.

Why not..we are already paying a 40% gas tax.
 
Originally Posted By: expat
There are already dish washers, storage heaters and washing machines, that have timers to take advantage of lower cost off peak electricity. It only makes sense that cars take a charge during off peak periods.


Right, but this affects mobility. You can hop in your car and gas it up at any time of the day or night and the rates don't change based on time of day. Hopping in your EV to discover it isn't charged because off peak hasn't happened yet is a whole new level of mobility inconvenience. Also, there will need to be some "smartness" programmed into this, because if, as Shannow theorizes, "peak" times change, as the system morphs then the charger/vehicle/program will need to be able to be aware of when "cheap" is.
 
Just to put realistic kW numbers on this:

1.2kW 120v car charging, never a problem.
4 kW average AC power draw (more at startup spike), a problem now in the summer between 3pm & 7pm
6.6 kW average car 240v charging

Given the small % of electric cars now, no problem, yet as market penetration settles to 50% in 10 years, electric companies will need to build more generating plants. Building new plants is not such a terrible thing.
This electric demand will help keep gasoline prices lower over the next 50 years.

More U.K. numbers: about 100,000 electric cars now in the U.K., so not yet a big deal, but getting there in the land of high gas prices.....
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100,000 cars charging at 6KW is 600MW...clearly a bump in the afternoon peak...say not all of them do it, even 100MW, its still serious enough.

Who's going to build these new power stations, and whats going to fuel them ?

Oh, we're back in Automotive general.
 
This is something I've asked about before - but I always get shot down by people who have major, major blinders on for these electric cars.

There's definitely a specific use case for electric cars. But we just don't have the infrastructure here to support them. Even on warm summer days here in Upstate NY, we get warnings to not use A/C unless absolutely necessary because the grid can't support it.
 
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