Which station wagon?

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I've had several 1990's B-bodies from GM, they weren't all that reliable once they were older than 5 years. Today, GM quality of the mid 90's combined with the fact that they are 22-25 years old kind of rules them out. I would only be interested in up to '93 as 94-96 got that nightmare LT1 engine and the nightmare Optispark. But '93 did not have the latest AC freon. So they are out.

I wanted to look at the comprehensive list today that includes:

Subaru outback
Mazda
BMW
Volvo
Saab
VW Passat

and more?


Subaru is also highly overrated, they have had the dreaded head gasket issue for 20 years now.
Maybe a 6-cylinder Outback wagon?

I've had a Mazda 626 V6 sports edition and it was very fast, sporty, A+ handling but not easy to fix with the V6 sidewinder engine and very little room to do anything like timing belts. To replace the starter, I had to remove the throttle body, what a dumb design.
I don't know if the newer Mazda 6 wagons are any better or basically still the same thing.

Passat gets awful reviews. Saab- not sure. Volvo maybe?


I don't rule out stick shift at all. Not even in Wash DC traffic.

No love for BMW. Way too expensive to maintain and my experience with several 10 years ago let me to think their quality is even worse than troublesome Ford of the 1980's. Had a 1987 and a 1999 528i that were both money pits and broke down all the time and were not easy to repair.

Then there is the Dodge Magnum from about 10 years ago, not made anymore and IMO overpriced and achieved the collectible status.
 
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I have to wonder if those "unreliable" B-Bodies would be cheaper to repair than the station wagons listed. Then again, their purchase price is likely on the upswing.

Not sure what you are after. New station wagon, old? AWD, FWD, RWD? Need to move the family, or a compact would work?

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I'd try to find a low miles Magnum, or go with the 6 cylinder Outback. Pretty much everything in your list has a decent trade off. I went with a Golf wagon knowing there may be issues, but with pricing where it is right now, new ones are cheap and power-train warranty for 5 year 60k miles.
 
Being from NH and I am in the DC area, you know full well rust is a serious issue for B-bodies or anything GM from the 90's. GM cheapened out on steel, it's not that good, not rust-proofed and it eats them alive.

I had one from St Louis area that developed a huge hole where the spare tire was stored, almost to the point of it falling out.

You have to get a west coast unmolested B-body. I've had about 3. They are so not worth it anymore. And premium examples bring top coin. I would rather get a non-wagon Ford Crown Vic that's 10-15 years newer.


realistically I am only considered Subaru H6 Outback or maybe a Volvo and that's a huge maybe.
the Magnum wagon is a serious contender as well. I need to understand the common reliability issues - they have been out for over 10 years so we should know well. And how easy to do common repairs. Are spark plugs an easy DIY job or some professional nightmare where they have to tilt the engine?

My budget puts me up to 2008-09 I think.
 
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Originally Posted By: pacem


realistically I am only considered Subaru H6 Outback or maybe a Volvo and that's a huge maybe.
the Magnum wagon is a serious contender as well. I need to understand the common reliability issues - they have been out for over 10 years so we should know well. And how easy to do common repairs. Are spark plugs an easy DIY job or some professional nightmare where they have to tilt the engine?

My budget puts me up to 2008-09 I think.


I can only speak to the Hemi version, but spark plugs aren't bad. A swivel/magnetic extension helps. I believe if you find an R/T with all wheel drive, the all wheel drive system was based on Mercedes 4-matic. I had an 07 Jeep with that version of the Hemi engine, and even the newer 5.7 in my Jeep now is pretty easy to get to things.
 
The Subaru head gasket issues were from the previous generation motors. There have been some oil burning problems in the current generation FB motors (including in my 2013 Forester) that were mostly limited to manual transmission-equipped cars. Those seem to have been mostly resolved.

A 6-cyl Outback would be a fine choice; they're plenty reliable and hold their value.
 
Honda Accord or Toyota Camry..not too sporty but as reliable as a hammer. I'd like to have either of these little wagons. Nissan also built a diesel Maxima wagon in the mid to late 80's I would like to own, but parts would most likely be made of unobtanium. Old wagons are way cool and practical.
 
If you want to avoid rust, maybe look at MB E-class wagon? Although from a reliability standpoint, it'll probably not be much different from a BMW...
 
93 Volvo 240 DL wagon, and that year model would be the most desirable because it was the last year it was manufactured. Plenty of parts still available sourced here in the USA, and in Europe as well. Not lots of power, but get reasonable gas mileage. Red block engines are top notch.
 
What about a used Crosstour? They stopped making them but there are plenty used.

J35, 6-speed auto, Honda's 4WD system that's been around for a while. Also, they make K24 FWD only variants.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
The Subaru head gasket issues were from the previous generation motors. There have been some oil burning problems in the current generation FB motors (including in my 2013 Forester) that were mostly limited to manual transmission-equipped cars. Those seem to have been mostly resolved.

A 6-cyl Outback would be a fine choice; they're plenty reliable and hold their value.


As Bandito said, the 6 cyl Subaru engine is solid; past 2000 the troubles occurred with the 4 cylinder only.

Out of these you listed, and I'm talking new vehicles here:

Originally Posted By: pacem

Subaru outback
Mazda
BMW
Volvo
Saab
VW Passat


It all depends on your budget. A new Outback 6 cyl runs around 32k.

Mazda no longer make wagons, so you're looking at a small SUV CX5 runs 31k loaded, less if FWD and also less for lower trim level. They're 4 cylinder and easy to work on (I've heard), at least for oil changes.

BMW and Saab are out IMO, for various reasons some of which you stated. Passat is hit-or-miss on quality so that leaves Volvo. Depending on your budget, a Volvo could be the right fit.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
The Subaru head gasket issues were from the previous generation motors. There have been some oil burning problems in the current generation FB motors (including in my 2013 Forester) that were mostly limited to manual transmission-equipped cars. Those seem to have been mostly resolved.

A 6-cyl Outback would be a fine choice; they're plenty reliable and hold their value.


As I indicated, I cannot afford 2013 year,maybe up to 2009 at the newest.

Does anyone know definitely which year is not affected, i.e. the last affected year?
 
I loved my Jetta Wagon, 2004 model. Compact but I loved the size. fun to drive, although "reliable" and "easy to repair" may not be attributes usually given to them. Today they might be viewed as a bit crude too (NVH), but since I still don't know what you are shopping for, I'll toss that out. I still miss mine, warts and all. I still think they were reasonably rust-resistant; mine was rusting from the top down.

Subaru's do have their rust issues, but can they be had on the cheap? Most of their issues are not recurring on a regular / fast basis. A headgasket every 100k is annoying, but if you do it once, then you have another 100k before it comes back. Just sayin'.
 
Originally Posted By: pacem
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
The Subaru head gasket issues were from the previous generation motors. There have been some oil burning problems in the current generation FB motors (including in my 2013 Forester) that were mostly limited to manual transmission-equipped cars. Those seem to have been mostly resolved.

A 6-cyl Outback would be a fine choice; they're plenty reliable and hold their value.


As I indicated, I cannot afford 2013 year,maybe up to 2009 at the newest.

Does anyone know definitely which year is not affected, i.e. the last affected year?


Missed the affordability part of your post....
 
Volvo.

Very reliable 5 cyl (turbo). Best use of storage space. Sporty (for a box) and in my book, the best looking.

 
Originally Posted By: BigD1
93 Volvo 240 DL wagon, and that year model would be the most desirable because it was the last year it was manufactured. Plenty of parts still available sourced here in the USA, and in Europe as well. Not lots of power, but get reasonable gas mileage. Red block engines are top notch.



I am aware of the 240DL "Brick" - no thank you. The newest one is 25 years old and finding one with low miles / great shape - here on the east coast has to be downright impossible.

20 years ago maybe...
 
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Honda Accord or Toyota Camry..not too sporty but as reliable as a hammer. I'd like to have either of these little wagons. Nissan also built a diesel Maxima wagon in the mid to late 80's I would like to own, but parts would most likely be made of unobtanium. Old wagons are way cool and practical.


camry would be much first choice but they don't make a wagon since early 90's.

Maybe I should consider a compact SUV of some kind. As an alternative to the Outback.
 
Some of the head gasket issue with Subarus pertains to the changing of the coolant and whether or not that service is performed at the dealership properly. Even though it's the green stuff, the service department is supposed to add a small can of conditioner to the radiator. I don't know if this can only be purchased at the dealership, and my STi is an 04. So I cannot be certain what is required for different years and models. However I have owned four Subarus and never had a issue with a head gasket. Imprezas and one old Legacy for cumulative miles of approximately 300,000 miles
As to their awd system, the issue is that it is truly awd on manual transmission models and on some automatic transmission models, I have seen some conflicting data on this. Most manufacturers prefer a part time system that engages only when slip is detected on the driven wheels, and even then, power is limited to a minor percentage of engine torque. Mercedes(recently) on its sportier sedans with 4matic distributes power 31/69 percent f/r respectively. That ratio does not change, the awd in this instance is for putting down massive amounts of power(AMG) through more than 2 contact patches.
 
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