2010 Fusion oil consumption increasing
- Thread starter SilverFusion2010
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FWIW- I would go with a nice 10-30--since you are into SuperTech--why not try that?
I also agree 1qt in 3K miles is nothing to be overly concerned with. In my experience, engines of the 60's & 70's burning a quart in 2K miles was normal--if it only burned a quart in 3 K miles, you had a real winner on your hands !
Steve
I also agree 1qt in 3K miles is nothing to be overly concerned with. In my experience, engines of the 60's & 70's burning a quart in 2K miles was normal--if it only burned a quart in 3 K miles, you had a real winner on your hands !
Steve
You don't think that the filter doesn't absorb anything?? It does. Good bad or indifferent it does. Period end of story. It does hold the oil too. Which is a very fair point. But to say that it doesn't add or absorb oil over its life is not accurate. weigh a filter before and after you pull it off..... Tell me there is no difference. Try it. Report back your findings.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
You don't think that the filter doesn't absorb anything?? It does. Good bad or indifferent it does. Period end of story. It does hold the oil too. Which is a very fair point. But to say that it doesn't add or absorb oil over its life is not accurate. weigh a filter before and after you pull it off..... Tell me there is no difference. Try it. Report back your findings.
But you said that over the period of an OCI it would gradually absorb oil, reducing the overall volume in the sump over time. That was what he was commenting on, not that a filter holds oil. That's not the question and that isn't what you said earlier.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Remember that Ford Fusion has the large XG-2 oil filter that absorbs a fair amount of oil as well. It is a rather large filter. I had a Fusion and I had to add 3/4 of a quart every 5500 miles because of the filter absorbing so much. I would just stay with a 5w20. If it's leaking oil from somewhere then that can be repaired. If it's burning oil then get that fixed. Heavier oil will not correct burning of oil. And the high mileage oil will only correct a minor seal leak if indeed that is your problem.
You don't think that the filter doesn't absorb anything?? It does. Good bad or indifferent it does. Period end of story. It does hold the oil too. Which is a very fair point. But to say that it doesn't add or absorb oil over its life is not accurate. weigh a filter before and after you pull it off..... Tell me there is no difference. Try it. Report back your findings.
But you said that over the period of an OCI it would gradually absorb oil, reducing the overall volume in the sump over time. That was what he was commenting on, not that a filter holds oil. That's not the question and that isn't what you said earlier.
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Remember that Ford Fusion has the large XG-2 oil filter that absorbs a fair amount of oil as well. It is a rather large filter. I had a Fusion and I had to add 3/4 of a quart every 5500 miles because of the filter absorbing so much. I would just stay with a 5w20. If it's leaking oil from somewhere then that can be repaired. If it's burning oil then get that fixed. Heavier oil will not correct burning of oil. And the high mileage oil will only correct a minor seal leak if indeed that is your problem.
Originally Posted By: Lubener
You didn't believe that consumption would be virtually non existant forever on your 7 year old 160k mile Ford did you? You're still doing ok.The only inexpensive thing I would look into is a partially operating PCV system.
No I know that a qt every 3k is normal for a high mileage engine but there are some that do better than that. I'm about to go pull the pcv valve and clean it out, see what I see. I will report back soon
You didn't believe that consumption would be virtually non existant forever on your 7 year old 160k mile Ford did you? You're still doing ok.The only inexpensive thing I would look into is a partially operating PCV system.
No I know that a qt every 3k is normal for a high mileage engine but there are some that do better than that. I'm about to go pull the pcv valve and clean it out, see what I see. I will report back soon
Originally Posted By: bbhero
You don't think that the filter doesn't absorb anything?? It does. Good bad or indifferent it does. Period end of story. It does hold the oil too. Which is a very fair point. But to say that it doesn't add or absorb oil over its life is not accurate. weigh a filter before and after you pull it off..... Tell me there is no difference. Try it. Report back your findings.
That's not what I said, and it's not what you said either. The issue here is "absorb".. and "absorb oil over its life"
I pre-fill my filters whenever possible during an oil change, so I'm 100% aware that filters hold oil. I do not need to 'try it and report my findings.'
I would never say a filter "absorbs" oil. That would imply that the oil slowly soaks into the filter over a period of time, which is ludicrous. I am aware that a filter has a holding capacity, and I'm sure that nobody here would disagree that the filter DOES end up increasing the overall 'sump capacity' of an engine by whatever volume it is capable of holding, but your initial statement didn't speak to this.
The wording "absorbs oil" implies that after you've initially filled the engine/sump with oil, and at some point down the road, the filter will have absorbed an ADDITIONAL quantity, over and above the initial fill, and will continue to require multiple top-offs due to it's consumption of oil as a result of absorption. This just simply can't happen.
Using my Fusion's engine as an example.. The engine's sump is roughly 5 quarts. The filter I use (usually an Fl400s or equivalent) holds approximately .4 quarts.. this means that if I add 5.4 quarts to my engine during an oil change, run it, and then check after it's cooled back off, it SHOULD be right at the full mark. 3000 miles later, if the engine has not burned or leaked oil, it should be at, or very close to, the full mark. It should NOT be low, and should NOT require adding any additional oil. Why? The filter has not "absorbed" any oil.. Whatever soaked into the filter media during the initial fill/run, has completely saturated the media and will not absorb further.
In the OP's post, he stated he had to add additional oil down the road, long after the initial fill, and long after the rather short period that would have been required for the oil to saturate the filter media. Your statement implies that the filter will be continuing to absorb oil into the media (or, I hope you weren't implying that it would absorb into the filter casing) for thousands of miles down the road.
You don't think that the filter doesn't absorb anything?? It does. Good bad or indifferent it does. Period end of story. It does hold the oil too. Which is a very fair point. But to say that it doesn't add or absorb oil over its life is not accurate. weigh a filter before and after you pull it off..... Tell me there is no difference. Try it. Report back your findings.
That's not what I said, and it's not what you said either. The issue here is "absorb".. and "absorb oil over its life"
I pre-fill my filters whenever possible during an oil change, so I'm 100% aware that filters hold oil. I do not need to 'try it and report my findings.'
I would never say a filter "absorbs" oil. That would imply that the oil slowly soaks into the filter over a period of time, which is ludicrous. I am aware that a filter has a holding capacity, and I'm sure that nobody here would disagree that the filter DOES end up increasing the overall 'sump capacity' of an engine by whatever volume it is capable of holding, but your initial statement didn't speak to this.
The wording "absorbs oil" implies that after you've initially filled the engine/sump with oil, and at some point down the road, the filter will have absorbed an ADDITIONAL quantity, over and above the initial fill, and will continue to require multiple top-offs due to it's consumption of oil as a result of absorption. This just simply can't happen.
Using my Fusion's engine as an example.. The engine's sump is roughly 5 quarts. The filter I use (usually an Fl400s or equivalent) holds approximately .4 quarts.. this means that if I add 5.4 quarts to my engine during an oil change, run it, and then check after it's cooled back off, it SHOULD be right at the full mark. 3000 miles later, if the engine has not burned or leaked oil, it should be at, or very close to, the full mark. It should NOT be low, and should NOT require adding any additional oil. Why? The filter has not "absorbed" any oil.. Whatever soaked into the filter media during the initial fill/run, has completely saturated the media and will not absorb further.
In the OP's post, he stated he had to add additional oil down the road, long after the initial fill, and long after the rather short period that would have been required for the oil to saturate the filter media. Your statement implies that the filter will be continuing to absorb oil into the media (or, I hope you weren't implying that it would absorb into the filter casing) for thousands of miles down the road.
Ok, so pulled the pcv... had to pull intake manifold just to save my arm... just not enough room to get in there and get the PCV without leaving substantial amounts of skin on the engine.
PCV "rattles" however there is an oil film on the inside of the vacuum tubing. I have the valve soaking in seafoam right now.
There is no spring... is anyone familiar with these PCV valves? I don't see any broken bits inside the housing or scratches that might indicate there once was a spring... I suspect that it's all PCM controlled somehow.
Anyways I'm going to clean and reinstall on the theory that the valve wasn't sealing properly in the "closed" position due to buildup. It wasn't severely gunked up, but there was some varnish and stain, so maybe I'll see a reduction in consumption after this.
PCV "rattles" however there is an oil film on the inside of the vacuum tubing. I have the valve soaking in seafoam right now.
There is no spring... is anyone familiar with these PCV valves? I don't see any broken bits inside the housing or scratches that might indicate there once was a spring... I suspect that it's all PCM controlled somehow.
Anyways I'm going to clean and reinstall on the theory that the valve wasn't sealing properly in the "closed" position due to buildup. It wasn't severely gunked up, but there was some varnish and stain, so maybe I'll see a reduction in consumption after this.
Considering how hard it is to get to the PCV valve, I would think it would make sense to replace the valve, especially if it's showing signs of age. I understand wanting to save money, but if it were me, I'd spend the money and put a new one in there. I know I wouldn't want to have to go back in and take the intake manifold off again if cleaning it didn't end up helping.
The PCV on that engine is less than $30, so IMHO, it's worth replacing @ 160,000 miles.
The PCV on that engine is less than $30, so IMHO, it's worth replacing @ 160,000 miles.
I'm leaning that way. However pulling the intake manifold on this engine is easy, a few vacuum lines, unbolt the egr and throttle housing and 8 bolts. It's a motorcraft only part from what I can tell and the closest dealership is a 45min drive. I'm still looking.
Well, there are 3rd party aftermarket PCV valves, but pricing is pretty close to the Motorcraft part# (EV261).
You might ask around though..
EV261 - O'reilly Auto - $32.99
EV261 - Amazon - Prime eligible - $31.43
EV261 - Ebay - $29.99
EV261 - RockAuto - $29.79
...and that's just the first few links I found. Might be available at other shops near you, and lots of online sources offer quick shipping. Amazon Prime is usually 2 days or less.
You might ask around though..
EV261 - O'reilly Auto - $32.99
EV261 - Amazon - Prime eligible - $31.43
EV261 - Ebay - $29.99
EV261 - RockAuto - $29.79
...and that's just the first few links I found. Might be available at other shops near you, and lots of online sources offer quick shipping. Amazon Prime is usually 2 days or less.
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Well, there are 3rd party aftermarket PCV valves, but pricing is pretty close to the Motorcraft part# (EV261).
You might ask around though..
EV261 - O'reilly Auto - $32.99
EV261 - Amazon - Prime eligible - $31.43
EV261 - Ebay - $29.99
EV261 - RockAuto - $29.79
...and that's just the first few links I found. Might be available at other shops near you, and lots of online sources offer quick shipping. Amazon Prime is usually 2 days or less.
I want to know how rockauto literally has the same part at half price. EV-261 is $63.98 at the stealership and they don't even have it in stock!... it's a next business day item.
Well, there are 3rd party aftermarket PCV valves, but pricing is pretty close to the Motorcraft part# (EV261).
You might ask around though..
EV261 - O'reilly Auto - $32.99
EV261 - Amazon - Prime eligible - $31.43
EV261 - Ebay - $29.99
EV261 - RockAuto - $29.79
...and that's just the first few links I found. Might be available at other shops near you, and lots of online sources offer quick shipping. Amazon Prime is usually 2 days or less.
I want to know how rockauto literally has the same part at half price. EV-261 is $63.98 at the stealership and they don't even have it in stock!... it's a next business day item.
I'd say the answer there is that the stealership has a huge mark-up on it, either because they don't want to have to stock it, or figure if they've got to order it, they might as well make money on it.
It's pretty common, really.
It's pretty common, really.
Man I am not in the greatest of moods today.... So a) I really don't feel like arguing over minor differences that are to the point of being absolutely very small b) I apologise if my response wasn't not the best or greatest, impolite, and or argumentative c) I have just noted my own observations over a period of time d) again I am sorry for appearing to be short and lacking sensibility in my response. I hope you have had a good day today. I do enjoy reading your posts on here.
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bbhero - We all have our bad days. Perhaps I'm a bit of a stickler for terminology.. Most of what I said was for clarification, for the 'noobs' to the forum who might read the thread. I hope it didn't come off as insulting or condescending.
That said, thank you for the kind words. The feeling is mutual.
That said, thank you for the kind words. The feeling is mutual.
You like arguing.... A lot. I don't care to argue about this today.... Last night I struggled to make through my time at work due to my illness. So, in light of that... This doesn't mean anything. I struggle to walk, use my right arm and leg, about trip and fall six or seven times last night... And this is worth arguing over to me?? No. It is not. I don't really care that much today. Maybe when I have had a better couple of days it would matter more to me. Today... It doesn't.
Look... I am very fortunate to do all that I do. I am very blessed with the honor of taking care of other people's mother's, father's grandmother's, grandfather's, great grandmother's, great grandfather's. I greatly enjoy what I do at work. I am very fortunate and blessed to do what I do. It is hard on me at times... I have the blue stains on my shoes from where I'm dragging my feet/legs on the blue carpet there. I don't need or want a hand out. I earn what I get.
But this here is trivial nonsense at the end of the day. It's really not worthy of arguing over. At least for me today. I enjoy being on here a lot. Honestly I enjoy reading some of your posts on here. Very thought provoking. You do a great job of asking very good questions. I hope you have had a good day today.
Look... I am very fortunate to do all that I do. I am very blessed with the honor of taking care of other people's mother's, father's grandmother's, grandfather's, great grandmother's, great grandfather's. I greatly enjoy what I do at work. I am very fortunate and blessed to do what I do. It is hard on me at times... I have the blue stains on my shoes from where I'm dragging my feet/legs on the blue carpet there. I don't need or want a hand out. I earn what I get.
But this here is trivial nonsense at the end of the day. It's really not worthy of arguing over. At least for me today. I enjoy being on here a lot. Honestly I enjoy reading some of your posts on here. Very thought provoking. You do a great job of asking very good questions. I hope you have had a good day today.
I appreciate your response here man. Again, I'm sorry for not being better in my response. No excuses. I am just struggling a bit. Gospel truth... And I candidly have to say this .. some days my cognition is just not right. And I have a harder than average time of thinking things through in the right way or how to articulate my point of view or thinking in the right or better way. I just can't think or think about things on a deeper level on days like today. It is part of my deal. And yes my condition affects that part of the neurological function. I distinctly remember in 2001 locking my keys in my car about 10 times in less than 5 months. I broke down in my mom's kitchen telling her I felt like I had Alzheimer's. I did that one 3 times from April of 2001 until today. I understand what some of my patients go through. I guess... There's a good purpose for my condition. I understand them more than almost 90% of my co workers would. I am so blessed to do what I do. Last night was hard.. but very good too.
So, getting back on topic here... Yeah I probably and totally jacked up what I was saying and what I was trying to articulate. I do have no doubt that the filters absorb a certain amount of oil. But I guess they hold more than anything else.
So, getting back on topic here... Yeah I probably and totally jacked up what I was saying and what I was trying to articulate. I do have no doubt that the filters absorb a certain amount of oil. But I guess they hold more than anything else.
^^^ agree wholeheartedly ^^^ with Sr Tannon on getting a new PCV
My personal experience is that filters hold about a pint. Talking about can style screw on filters. I like to prefill with half to 3/4 pint before I install new filter because this shortens the hard start period that you get otherwise. (Meaning the couple of seconds a new filter takes to fill up on the very first start after an oil change)
There is some absorption of oil into the filter media, you can never completely drain a used filter, but this is maybe half of the filter can's volume... About a half pint will come out pretty quickly and then it will dribble for hours.
The only way I could understand this absorption would be if a new filter was not prefilled. Taking a 5 qt engine as an example; if you filled engine with 5qt of Xw-XX, but didn't prefill the new filter, on the first start after the oil change the filter is going to take up a pint or so of oil and hold it. (anti-drainback valve). This would show as a pint drop on dipstick level.
This is a bit of an oversimplification because most engine manufacturers account for filter volume when they publish crankcase capacity, but that's for another day.
If a filter somehow makes more than a pint or so disappear I'd be trying to find the micro black hole cause something mighty odd is going on.
There is some absorption of oil into the filter media, you can never completely drain a used filter, but this is maybe half of the filter can's volume... About a half pint will come out pretty quickly and then it will dribble for hours.
The only way I could understand this absorption would be if a new filter was not prefilled. Taking a 5 qt engine as an example; if you filled engine with 5qt of Xw-XX, but didn't prefill the new filter, on the first start after the oil change the filter is going to take up a pint or so of oil and hold it. (anti-drainback valve). This would show as a pint drop on dipstick level.
This is a bit of an oversimplification because most engine manufacturers account for filter volume when they publish crankcase capacity, but that's for another day.
If a filter somehow makes more than a pint or so disappear I'd be trying to find the micro black hole cause something mighty odd is going on.
Old EV-261 valve after a soak in seafoam overnight
There's the spring!
I've gotten it clean, question now is just how much wear does a PCV spring accumulate over 160k miles??
I have a new valve on the way, should be here thursday, then I get to put my intake back together
There's the spring!
I've gotten it clean, question now is just how much wear does a PCV spring accumulate over 160k miles??
I have a new valve on the way, should be here thursday, then I get to put my intake back together
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5-24-17
PCV valve replacement + M1 10w-30 HM appears to have stopped consumption. Approx 2k miles on oil and level is holding steady at the bottom of the upper fill hole on dipstick.
PCV valve replacement + M1 10w-30 HM appears to have stopped consumption. Approx 2k miles on oil and level is holding steady at the bottom of the upper fill hole on dipstick.
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