QSUD in Ecotec: 2 qts. consumed in 3K !

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
When the rings wear and allow blow by into the crankcase, the oil turns black and it causes excess gases to vent into the intake plenum. This could be why you are finding oil there. If the air filter is restricted this can cause the intake to suck oil out of the crankcase. Take a close look at the oil filter and see if there is carbon/soot build up in the corners of the media where it meets the end cap. This would indicate the rings are worn.

My ecotec 2.2 burns synthetic oil a little faster than conventional. Maybe a syn blend is the way to go.

Take a look at the air filter, or the oil filter? I'm not sure which one you mean. I inspected the air filter (and changed it) early last year when I discovered the initial oil loss, and it was quite clean. Since you mention "end cap," I suppose you mean the oil filter?

Would the rings be worn on a car with not quite 72,000 miles?

 

[Benzadmiral]

Update,

Yesterday I found the oil to be down after 1000 miles since the last top-off. Had to add 1/2 quart. So, while the previous consumption was 1 qt. in 1600 miles, now it's 1 in approximately 2000.

 

[4WD]

This is a 5 pager but long story short after eating QSUD you went back to AC Delco and problem solved ?

Hmm ... QSUD was my next planned fill for my Ecotec ... but after switching from M1 to PUP - I just did the first top off 1/2 quart ever around 3k ... motor has 83k ... (driven hard) ...

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
This is a 5 pager but long story short after eating QSUD you went back to AC Delco and problem solved ?

Hmm ... QSUD was my next planned fill for my Ecotec ... but after switching from M1 to PUP - I just did the first top off 1/2 quart ever around 3k ... motor has 83k ... (driven hard) ...

Right. See, there isn't much to play with on the 2.4 engined Regal. The turbo and GS guys have mods and tunes they can experiment with. On the base CXL, there's tire pressure and type of oil, and that's about it. So after going back to AC Delco oil last year, early this year I tried Valvoline's MaxLife in 5W-30 . . . and the consumption returned. Slower, now that the MaxLife has been in there for 2600 miles, but still there.

My 2.4 has not quite 73K miles, purchased it at 44K, and I drive about 9K a year: about 70% city, but I get some highway trips of 12-15 miles several times a month. Maybe I need a longer road trip at 70 mph.

 

[WobblyElvis]

If the rings are worn and combustion gases are blowing past the pistons into the oil, soot/carbon will build up on the oil filter. It's most noticeable where the filter media meets the end cap. If the air filter has been changed within the last two years then I doubt it is contributing to the problem.

The oil level in my 2.2 ecotec is difficult to measure. When the engine is shut down hot [1hour dirve] the oil level will rise slowly for a period of several hours. 5 minutes after shut down the oil might read only 1/4 full but 3 hours later it reads over half full. This makes it hard ascertain how much oil the engine is consuming. You also want to park in the same spot every time you check the oil.

If you find the throttle plate to be oily, this indicates piston blow by is pushing air/oil fumes out of the crankcase up through the head and out the valve cover vent into the throttle area.

If the valve stem seals are worn, blue smoke may be seen during a cold start, when backing off the throttle, as in exiting a highway, and during stop and go driving.

Your oil consumption is rather high for the mileage. Perhaps the rings are stuck in the piston grooves. Some people say that, if this is the case, the right oil additive and or piston soak can help but I have never done anything like that.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
. . .
The oil level in my 2.2 ecotec is difficult to measure. When the engine is shut down hot [1hour dirve] the oil level will rise slowly for a period of several hours. 5 minutes after shut down the oil might read only 1/4 full but 3 hours later it reads over half full. This makes it hard ascertain how much oil the engine is consuming. You also want to park in the same spot every time you check the oil. . . .


Hm. That might be part of my problem, though I don't recall low readings in the past. Hard for me to check the oil at, say, 8 pm in the dark, but on weekend afternoons I could try that.

 

[4WD]

I check mine in the morning ... it was hot when parked and has all night to settle - otherwise I can't get a clear mark - it is too scattered on the stick even in a coupe hours.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Checked again yesterday, 5 min. after driving 30 min.; looked a fraction low, though there was some oil in the safe range. Checked again in 1 hr., and the level looked fine. So maybe that's the problem, that the Ecotec's oil level takes a while to settle?

 

[Benzadmiral]

This is just spitballing . . . but what if the Quaker State and Valvoline MaxLife I've used don't drain down into the pan with the same readiness the AC Delco (which I understand is made by Mobil)? That they tend to cling to the upper reaches of the engine -- which after all would be a good thing -- a little more than does the ACDelco? The VML, for instance, is designed to be a little thicker than a non-high mileage oil of the same grade. So:

Scenario 1, Dealer Oil: drains down a bit more readily, and I read a proper oil level within the first 5-10 minutes after shutting off the engine.

Scenario 2, QSUD and VML: take a little longer to slide down into the pan, and so I get a "low" reading within the first 5-10 minutes, but a good level an hour later.

Conceivable?

 

[Boss302fan]

I would think that Maxlife would work very well in your application just like it has in many others... Check your oil after it has settled overnight, before you restart the car in the morning. This is the only way you will get a true reading.

 

[zaffo757]

So the oils are getting "better"... but the engines can not handle them? This is great.
I can't help but be glad I have not evolved into a vehicle that requires synthetic.
I run it in my 4runner v8 in the summer because I tow a lot, but have no issues when I use conventional over the warm SoCal winter.

Don't wish this kind of trouble on anyone.

 

[209paulc]

Owned one of the first GMC terrains available in central California fall of 2009. My was equipped with 2.4l and issues with oil consumption on day one. There's TSB for the high pressure fuel pump and they've pushed the warranty out to 120,000 miles on the pump but I'm not sure how many years. Look into it! Had my replaced at roughly 45k miles and also look into a TSB regarding timing chain replacement if u have a rattle sound at startup....2010 and 2011 had lots of issues....I also switched to castrol 0w40 after warranty

 

[209paulc]

The high pressure fuel pump was over pressurizing and and delutting the oil...After the fuel pump replacement and switching to 40wt oil I cut the consumption by 60-70%. I discovered the TSB for the timing chain a year later and also had the chain replaced. The rattle sound was present before having the fuel pump replaced and I believe the issues are connected.

 

[vronline]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
This is just spitballing . . . but what if the Quaker State and Valvoline MaxLife I've used don't drain down into the pan with the same readiness the AC Delco (which I understand is made by Mobil)? That they tend to cling to the upper reaches of the engine -- which after all would be a good thing -- a little more than does the ACDelco? The VML, for instance, is designed to be a little thicker than a non-high mileage oil of the same grade. So:

Scenario 1, Dealer Oil: drains down a bit more readily, and I read a proper oil level within the first 5-10 minutes after shutting off the engine.

Scenario 2, QSUD and VML: take a little longer to slide down into the pan, and so I get a "low" reading within the first 5-10 minutes, but a good level an hour later.

Conceivable?


NO!

Just wondering if your owner's manual says anything about proper technique for checking the oil? Just did a quick check on the Internet and what I saw says to check when the motor is Cold.

Sorry I didn't read this entire discussion...

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: vronline
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
This is just spitballing . . . but what if the Quaker State and Valvoline MaxLife I've used don't drain down into the pan with the same readiness the AC Delco (which I understand is made by Mobil)? That they tend to cling to the upper reaches of the engine -- which after all would be a good thing -- a little more than does the ACDelco? The VML, for instance, is designed to be a little thicker than a non-high mileage oil of the same grade. So:

Scenario 1, Dealer Oil: drains down a bit more readily, and I read a proper oil level within the first 5-10 minutes after shutting off the engine.

Scenario 2, QSUD and VML: take a little longer to slide down into the pan, and so I get a "low" reading within the first 5-10 minutes, but a good level an hour later.

Conceivable?


NO!

Just wondering if your owner's manual says anything about proper technique for checking the oil? Just did a quick check on the Internet and what I saw says to check when the motor is Cold.

Sorry I didn't read this entire discussion...

My manual says, "It is a good idea to check the engine oil level at each fuel fill. In order to get an accurate reading, the oil must be warm and the vehicle must be on level ground." Which is the way I've always done it.

Okay, you say no -- but why isn't this possible?

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
Originally Posted By: vronline
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
This is just spitballing . . . but what if the Quaker State and Valvoline MaxLife I've used don't drain down into the pan with the same readiness the AC Delco (which I understand is made by Mobil)? That they tend to cling to the upper reaches of the engine -- which after all would be a good thing -- a little more than does the ACDelco? The VML, for instance, is designed to be a little thicker than a non-high mileage oil of the same grade. So:

Scenario 1, Dealer Oil: drains down a bit more readily, and I read a proper oil level within the first 5-10 minutes after shutting off the engine.

Scenario 2, QSUD and VML: take a little longer to slide down into the pan, and so I get a "low" reading within the first 5-10 minutes, but a good level an hour later.

Conceivable?


NO!

Just wondering if your owner's manual says anything about proper technique for checking the oil? Just did a quick check on the Internet and what I saw says to check when the motor is Cold.

Sorry I didn't read this entire discussion...

My manual says, "It is a good idea to check the engine oil level at each fuel fill. In order to get an accurate reading, the oil must be warm and the vehicle must be on level ground." Which is the way I've always done it.

Okay, you say no -- but why isn't this possible?


I think the issues with checking hot are 1) allowing a consistent amount of time for oil drain back given the oil's varying temperature is difficult, 2) gas station refueling pads are notoriously uneven, if for no other reason than for rain water drainage and 3) in many cars, oil seems to migrate up the dipstick tube while running, making a reliable reading even more difficult.

So, while checking hot may be the theoretically best method, checking after the car sits overnight in the same spot will give the most consistent reading. When traveling I do check the oil at every fuel stop, but generally only to see the level is comfortably above the minimum mark: drawing any other conclusion seems unwise.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: Danh

I think the issues with checking hot are 1) allowing a consistent amount of time for oil drain back given the oil's varying temperature is difficult, 2) gas station refueling pads are notoriously uneven, if for no other reason than for rain water drainage and 3) in many cars, oil seems to migrate up the dipstick tube while running, making a reliable reading even more difficult.

So, while checking hot may be the theoretically best method, checking after the car sits overnight in the same spot will give the most consistent reading. When traveling I do check the oil at every fuel stop, but generally only to see the level is comfortably above the minimum mark: drawing any other conclusion seems unwise.


It's still dark here now when I head off to work M-F. On Saturday or Sunday I can check after it gets light; I'll try it this weekend.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Danh
I think the issues with checking hot are 1) allowing a consistent amount of time for oil drain back given the oil's varying temperature is difficult, 2) gas station refueling pads are notoriously uneven, if for no other reason than for rain water drainage and 3) in many cars, oil seems to migrate up the dipstick tube while running, making a reliable reading even more difficult.

These reasons are dead on. That's why I check after it's been sitting overnight, on the level garage floor, where possible. Of course, this is assuming that it's not markedly different from what I'd get with it being level, after being off for say ten minutes after being at operating temperature. But, that's never been a concern. The taxis always had to be checked hot, but that was just the way things had to be done.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Update,

In May I went back to the dealer and had them change the oil. They tell me they use a full synthetic 5W-30 now. I checked the level immediately after, and periodically since then.

Well . . . the 2.4 doesn't seem to like that stuff either. Yesterday I checked and found the level down below the dipstick again. 1.5 quarts of O'Reilly's synthetic 5W-30 later, and the level is where it should be. Since I have about 2400 miles on this fill, over 3 months, that's 1 quart in 1600 miles. Still I see no leaks. I'll ask someone to drive behind my car and see if there is any blue smoke, which would indicate oil burning.

The Regal's gas mileage is unchanged, and I hear no strange noises. I guess this is just the nature of this engine. Buying a quart of oil every 2 months won't break me.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Try M1 HM 10w30. And I haven't read this entire thread, so apologies if this has been suggested before, but if you haven't changed your PCV valve you should.