Mobil ESP or Penrite?

[RandomNobody]

Hey,

I been also considering Penrite here in Aus as it is local, cheap(er) and seems to have very good quality oils.

I asked Mobil tech support what oil I need for the 2.8L turbo diesel CRD engine which is some italian 4 cyl or something diesel...

Anyway Mobil recomended the ESP Formula 5w30.

When I spoke to Penrite on other hand...

This is what I got...

From new, the engine takes a refill of 6.6L of oil to meet Mercedes Bluebook number 229.31 OR 229.51 at viscosity SAE 5W-30 if the car has a dpf.

If there’s no dpf then the same MB numbers are to be applied, but the oil is be at viscosity 0W-40.

You’d need to determine dpf or not by asking a dealer’s service department to check by the VIN.

MB 229.31= Multigrade, low SAPS engine oil, advised for both diesel and petrol engines of Mercedes Benz, Smart and Chrysler.

Only low viscosity engine oils which can realize a 1.0% saving on used fuel in the M111 Fuel economy test (CEC L-54-T-96) can get this approval.

In this test the fuel savings are compared to the performance of the Reference oil RL 191 (SAE 15W-40).

MB 229.51= Low SAPS Long Life engine oil for diesel engines with particle filter meeting emission EU-4 -> standards.

I’m afraid Penrite does not have a suitable oil for this vehicle if there is no dpf.

The reason why im asking... is it possible that Mobils ESP also wouldnt meet the spec but they recomended it anyway... i mean they never really answered anything I asked, they just recomnded oils and omitted everything I asked them hence im wondering.

With those specs available from Penrite you who know would know if Zmobil ESP would be approved or not as I got no clue.

 

[rubberchicken]

Well, give them credit for saying "it depends" , and telling you why. That counts for credibility.

 

[RandomNobody]

Double post.

 

[RandomNobody]

I like what I got from penrite. What I didnt like was what mobil said which was nothing but use this oil. No specs, no reason why or wny not.

Because I got such a thorough response from Penrite, im questioning whether the ESP mobil meets the criteria or it does not either and was just recomended as that is all they got.

Based on the specs as to why penrite does not have what I need... if you know Mobil ESP specs... does it also fall short of why penrite is not going to suit or do they have the correct figures that will work?

 

[Garak]

You got what Mobil states the engine should take. What does the manufacturer of the engine call for?

 

[RandomNobody]

Good question. They say the manufacturer requires a 229.31 or 229.51 MB approval.

For some reason chrysler say 0w 40 is needed in engines without DPF while engines with the DPF need 5w 30.

I would assume if there is a 0w 30 with the same MB rating it would also be fine in place of 5w 30...

Penrite dont have a 0w 40 and that is why they couldnt recomend me an oil for no dpf.

Now Mobil say I can use either 5w 30 or 0w 40 in the car without Dpf.

I dont understand why chrylser would say 0w 40 (no dpf) or 5w 30 with... isnt the engine the same thing? Dpf isnt inside the motor is it? So why would thr viscosity change all of a sudden from 30 to 40 dur to having or not having one.

That is where im confused.

If i can use 5w 30 from mobil ESP formula OR 0w 40 ESP formula from mobil...

I got the data spec sheet and i dont get what im looking at and which would be better.

 

[Garak]

Then pick by approval. Viscosity itself isn't too much of a worry, since HTHS is specified as part of these specifications anyhow. Chrysler is confused because they've been passed around like a jug of wine at a hobo party and have way too many oil specifications to keep track of. There's a reason they are working very closely with Shell right now. Without Shell's entire catalog of lubricants at their disposal, a Chrysler dealer cannot service its own vehicles.

If it were up here, you'd have a heck of a time getting a 0w-40 ESP type oil. All the varieties I've seen up here in C3 are 5w-30 and 0w-30, at least on the shelves.

 

[SR5]

M1 5W30 ESP is a full synthetic ACEA C3 oil with MB 229.31 & MB 229.51
KV100 = 12.1 cSt
KV40 = 72.7
SA = 0.6 %
HTHS = 3.58 cP

Penrite Enviro+ C-3 5W30 is a full synthetic ACEA C3 oil with MB 229.31 & MB229.51
KV100 = 12.1 cSt
KV40 = 71
SA = 0.78
TBN = 7.8
Zinc = 810 ppm

These would be very similar products, thick 30 grades, and very close to the thin 40 grades in terms of viscosity and HTHS. The big difference is sulphated ash level.
M1 0W40 FS
KV100 = 12.9 cSt
KV40 = 70.8 cSt
HTHS = 3.6 cP
SA = 1.34%

Go the Penrite C3 oil

 

[SR5]

Just to use a few more words, as what I wrote was a little confusing,

Originally Posted By: SR5

These two 30 grade synthetics (M1 ESP and Penrite Enviro+ C3) would be very similar products.

They are both thick 30 grades.

The thick 30 grades and very close to the thin 40 grades in terms of viscosity and HTHS. The big difference is not so much the viscosity but rather it is the sulphated ash level of the high SAPS oils that are A3/B4 and MB229.5

The C3 oil seems the safer bet, as you may have a DPF, and still fine if you don't have one.

I would go the Penrite C3

 

[supercity]

Some OEM recommendations just make no sense at all. The Handbook of my Dodge says to use 5w30 meeting MS6395. It then goes on to say if that is not available use an oil meeting 229.51. This makes no logical sense other than they have data proving these particular specs work in the engine.

Fiat typically say to use 5w40 with a Fiat Spec equating to A3/B4 in many diesel engines without a DPF. The same engine with a DPF then takes 5w30 C2. The logical choice would have been 5w40 C3.

The difference between 229.51 in a 0w40 or 5w30 in our climate is near practically zero. If the vehicle is out of warranty I would not be bothered with the difference.

FWIW, Castrol have a 0w40 229.51 that's easy to get.

 

[RandomNobody]

Thanks guys.

Why would penrite say they do not have an oil to meet the spec need if i do not have dpf as they dont have a 0w 40.

Thry said they would assume the 5w 30 enviro would work... but cant recomend it because manufacturer says 5w 30 dpf or 0w 40 no dpf which penrite dont have.

Mobil on other hand have 0w 4p0, 5w 30 etc.

Also is the penrite enviro diesel a group 4 base or 3?

What about the mobil esp formula?

I gues HPR diesel is no good.

 

[SR5]

As SuperCity said, you can get a Castrol Edge 0W40 that is
Quote:
Petrol: SN
ACEA C3
BMW Longlife-04 (Diesel Engines Only)
Porsche A40
dexos2
Meets Fiat 9.55535-S2
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51
Renault RN 0700 / RN 0710
VW 502 00 / 505 00


You can't miss it, it says "Diesel" in a big font on the front label. Just don't confuse it with the high SAPS (A3/B4) Edge 0W40


BTW, I'm not clear, Do you have a DPF ? Or are you unsure ?
The dealer should be able to help you.

 

[RandomNobody]

I don't have the car yet.

I was told 2010 was the last model made without DPF in Australia, in 2011 when interior got redesigned the DPF also got added.

To there understanding... dpf produces no performance benefit or mileage or anything just 1 extra thing to go wrong. So if anything... it makes car worse.

Because of this I am looking to buy a JK unlimited 4 door wrsngler pre DPF (my10) or earlier turbo diesel 5spd auto. It will have bwtween 60,000-150,000 km. I would say around 120k on the motor.

Just wanting to do my oil homework before i purchase so once i do i know how to look after it.

Last thing i want to do is spend 100+ on 5L oil bottles (mobil) if the cars gonna chew through oil, make loud noise etc compare to some other oil that makes engine quiet etc and cheaper to buy.

Only reason I would pay the 100+ is because you get what you pay for. If i dont, its money stolen for an inferior product.

And having read Delvac and other stuff... mobil themselves only recomend the ESP.

They never told me if its a group 3 or 4 based oil...

I want to stay away from hydrocracked oils.

 

[SR5]

Most oils are probably a mixture of multiple Groups with the manufacturers not telling much. So I prefer to buy on price and spec (eg MB 229.51).

If I had to guess I would say a 5W30 is more likely to be Group 3 while a 0W40 is more likely to contain Group 4. But I'm sure there are exceptions.

In Oz I would always buy Castrol Edge over M1 as I consider them to be equivalent in quality, but the Castrol is always much cheaper to buy. To me the price order for name brand synthetics in Australia goes something like this (highest to lowest price): M1, Edge, Penrite, SynPower, Shell Helix.

 

[RandomNobody]

Ok I have done as much research as I could and I am in a Dillema.

I have provided the information I got from Mobil regarding which oil to use to Penrite tech and asked them if I can use one of penrites oils and they said to go with Mobil as they dont have what meets the specification.

To try keep this short...

Jeep Australia maintain that a MB rated 229.31 and 229.51 be used in both DPF fitted vehicles and vehicles without a DPF.

This makes no sense because not one oil company I know has a 0w40 weight oil that is 229.31 and 229.51 approved.

The 0w40 weight oils are 229.3 and 229.5 approved.

So jeep australia are asking for something non existent.

After going back and forth between penrite tech and mobil tech...

Mobil tech said to use the ESP 5w30 or if I want the 0w40 weight to use MOBIL1. That is the gold bottle regular oil (im guessing group 4 POA) similar to castrol edge titanium FST as it meets the 229.3 and 229.1 rating (though not 229.31 and 229.51).

I passed this on to Penrite and they said personally it makes no sense to them why jeep is asking for a 229.31 and 229.51 for cars without a DPF. And on a personal recomendation recomends I buy the mobil1 oil over anything penrite offer.

I asked Penrite if 0w40 premium 10 tenths would be suitable and they said no and to get Mobil 1.

Why am i confused more than anything?

Being a diesel car isnt it meant to have diesel oil not just regular car oil???????

Mobil is saying to use Mobil 1 which is not a 'diesel' oil but the oil I could be using in my car where Im using edge titanium fst 0w40.

And why doesnt penrite have anything, what aould be wrong with their 0w40 ten 10ths, its also a passenger car oil designed with ester base.

Given it is only a3/b3 approved and not a3/b4 which mobil 1 is and MB rating i dont know. Penrite said i cant use that and buy mobil. Mobil is saying use a regular oil not a diesel specific oil.

I dont get anything anymore.