CK-4 HDEO in Motorcycles

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Well there are many of us that use HDEO for our bikes. I tend to use DELO. Just wondering about your thoughts on the new Standard coming out. It obviously reduces the ZDDP levels. Maybe Sunrah will have some thoughts. Guess I will try it with a UOA to see what is going on.
 
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I bought some of the more of the Rotella T6 last year specifically because of this. I'm concerned that the new spec is going to make these oils less effective as an alternative to the motorcycle specific ones that are rough on the wallet. I'd love to see a UOA though to make a better determination, any volunteers?
 
I might get a UOA on mine.

I currently have T4 white bottle 15w40 in my 02 CBR f4i. It's currently at around 1800 miles. I've been riding it in the winter so might take precaution and run it to around 2200-2500 miles.

I bought the T4 back when they were about to change to CK-4 so it might be the new bottle with CJ-4 spec. I'm going to check it right now.


Edit: Sad news, I bought the jug too early. It was when Shell was switching out the bottle redesigns. I checked the T4 gallon and the highest rating it stated was CJ-4.

I could possibly get a UOA on this T4 CJ-4 bottle and then get a UOA on the CK-4. Only problem is that this batch will be in the winter and the CK-4 will get the summer.

I hear NAPA does UOAs, what is the rough cost of getting one, assuming I want TBN as well?

Thanks
 
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I wont use a CK4 in my bike unless Harley includes it in their new touring bikes. Then again, even if they included CK4 I may not as their new bikes have a different engine 2017 and later.

To explain, 2014 - 2016 Touring Bikes Owners Manual, Harley says if their oil is not available,
"Acceptable designations include: CH4, CI4 and CJ4."
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It also says to replace it as soon as possible. How does that instill confidence in their recommendation?.,,

and your point is?
Reread the post, the discussion is CK4 oil.
Would you not have more "confidence" in running a CH,CI or CJ since they are mentioned in the manual as ACCEPTABLE, EVEN if it says in the manual, like other manufacturers to change it back to OEM brand as soon as possible, over a CK4 that is not mentioned?

If you do not agree I can not help you but I pretty much know, others do understand.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It also says to replace it as soon as possible. How does that instill confidence in their recommendation?.,,

and your point is?
Reread the post, the discussion is CK4 oil.
Would you not have more "confidence" in running a CH,CI or CJ since they are mentioned in the manual as ACCEPTABLE, EVEN if it says in the manual, like other manufacturers to change it back to OEM brand as soon as possible, over a CK4 that is not mentioned?

If you do not agree I can not help you but I pretty much know, others do understand.

I agree, and thank you for your common sense approach in this manipulating world of manufacture and advertising milking the people of their money.
 
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Just my thoughts here.

I see no reason why the CK4 formula would not be o.k. in a motorcycle. If it's good enough for modern diesels with their tighter tolerances, turbo's, extreme torque, high horsepower, and higher running temperatures. I remember back in approximately 2006 when everyone was flipping out about CJ4 and it possibly being no good.

With this type of scared thinking we should all move back to the sludge building, less wear protection of CF classification.

Each newer oil classification is brought on to handle tougher more extreme engine conditions.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It also says to replace it as soon as possible. How does that instill confidence in their recommendation?.,,

and your point is?
Reread the post, the discussion is CK4 oil.
Would you not have more "confidence" in running a CH,CI or CJ since they are mentioned in the manual as ACCEPTABLE, EVEN if it says in the manual, like other manufacturers to change it back to OEM brand as soon as possible, over a CK4 that is not mentioned?

If you do not agree I can not help you but I pretty much know, others do understand.
Obviously you don't get it. You keep stating Harley recommends Diesel oil which they do not. They are saying you can use it if Their oil, WHICH IS THE ONLY OIL THEY RECOMMEND IN THEIR BIKES, IS NOT AVAILABLE. THEN CHANGE IT OUT ASAP. Where does it say, and could you post it where in the manual it says, it's OK to use for the life of the motorcycle? My point is not that diesel oil won't work, it is that Harley doesn't RECOMMEND it as the proper oil for full time use. A point you seem to conveniently ignore.,,,
 
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Just my thoughts here.

I see no reason why the CK4 formula would not be o.k. in a motorcycle. If it's good enough for modern diesels with their tighter tolerances, turbo's, extreme torque, high horsepower, and higher running temperatures. I remember back in approximately 2006 when everyone was flipping out about CJ4 and it possibly being no good.

With this type of scared thinking we should all move back to the sludge building, less wear protection of CF classification.

Each newer oil classification is brought on to handle tougher more extreme engine conditions.



Oh, I agree for sure on the above. CK4 is made to be backwards compatible with all previous classifications. It should be a no brainer.

With that said, the new oils are being formulated with less zinc/phos for these new modern engines, what bothers me (right now anyway) is these oils are developed for and tested on automobile/truck engines. To give credit to the CK4 I think Harley Oils have less zinc/phos now anyway.

As we all know, in decades past, there have been issues with some new oils and old tech engines, Im just saying, Ill let someone else use their motor to test it, as well as Harley Davidison before I use it, I mean why not? Yet I am not at all in a panic over it.

BTW - Ford Motor Company has just come out with a statement regarding and reporting excessive wear in some of their new diesel engines using CK4 oil and suggesting to stay with CJ4, on top of it, they just came out with a new Ford Requirement for CK4 oils. There is a youtube link somewhere in these forums, good luck with that *L*

Anyway, I agree with you and not speaking out against CK4 in anyway, just giving my reasons that I would hold off in my Road King, I doubt very much there will ever be a 15/50 or 20/50 CK4 oil made anyway, so I dont have to give it much thought.
 
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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It also says to replace it as soon as possible. How does that instill confidence in their recommendation?.,,

and your point is?
Reread the post, the discussion is CK4 oil.
Would you not have more "confidence" in running a CH,CI or CJ since they are mentioned in the manual as ACCEPTABLE, EVEN if it says in the manual, like other manufacturers to change it back to OEM brand as soon as possible, over a CK4 that is not mentioned?

If you do not agree I can not help you but I pretty much know, others do understand.
Obviously you don't get it. You keep stating Harley recommends Diesel oil which they do not. They are saying you can use it if Their oil, WHICH IS THE ONLY OIL THEY RECOMMEND IN THEIR BIKES, IS NOT AVAILABLE. THEN CHANGE IT OUT ASAP. Where does it say, and could you post it where in the manual it says, it's OK to use for the life of the motorcycle? My point is not that diesel oil won't work, it is that Harley doesn't RECOMMEND it as the proper oil for full time use. A point you seem to conveniently ignore.,,,

Yet HD doesn't recommend any oil except their own. Even bottles with the magical motorcycle on them they don't recommend. We all know from used oil analysis that most motorcycle oils are better than HD's even though HD doesn't even mention using them, they recommend diesel formulated oils. Used oil analysis of diesel oils in motorcycles and HD's show just as good and sometimes on certain motorcycle oil better.

Manufacturers would love for everyone to buy their specific products, but the moss act that protects consumers from manufacturers gouging consumers, so manufacturers come up with wording to make consumers feel like they have to use manufacturers specific product.

An educated consumer is a wise consumer.
 
I think that the new API CK-4 classification is ok to use in wet clutch bikes, but what is a big question mark for me is the new FA-4 classification on the Shell Rotella T6 jugs, that FA-4 on the jug is what needs more research before using it in motorcycles with a wet clutch. Anyone have a comment on this?
 
Originally Posted By: Degreaser
I think that the new API CK-4 classification is ok to use in wet clutch bikes, but what is a big question mark for me is the new FA-4 classification on the Shell Rotella T6 jugs, that FA-4 on the jug is what needs more research before using it in motorcycles with a wet clutch. Anyone have a comment on this?


FA-4 oils are not backwards compatible oils, they replace no previous classification.
FA-4 oils are developed only for some new diesel engines that are just coming on the market that are supposed to be super efficient and manufactured with the use of this oil in mind.
I would never put it in a bike, its too new, and if I am correct this oil is made for these new engines to achieve that highest possible MPG, which may mean some slippery stuff in there that clutches may not like.
Just my thoughts, I always make sure to use the correct grade oil, your engine maker knows best.
 
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Thanks for your post,
I have a '05 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 wet clutch bike, I like using the Shell Rotella 5w40 Diesel in it, and last week I saw a post on a motorcycle forum where they said Shell Rotella changed forumla, so since reading that I have been on a quest to learn more information, so as of today here is what I know so far.
The Rotella line of products is now offered in 5 categories,
T4 15w40
T5 Ultra 10w30 FA-4
T5 10w30
T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w30
T6 5w40

The new T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w30 has Zinc-Phos limit of 0.08%
And the T6 5w40 has limit of 0.12%
As far as I know, the reason for the 2 - Rotella T6 classes is because the newer gasoline motors for cars require a lower Zinc-Phos level, and for my bike I like having the higher Zinc-Phos levels and the new CK-4 classification is ok for my bike, it should not affect my wet clutch.
And I agree where you said not to put FA-4 in my bike, which means the T5 Ultra 10w30 FA-4 is out.

So the new Rotella T6 5w40 CK-4 is ok for my bike, with or without a SM or SN rating (which I think is only for the zinc-phos limits for newer gasoline motors).
Any comments would be appreciated.
 
Thanks for the comments. I will continue to use my DELO in CJ if I can find it. I know it works well in my shared sump Indian from UOAs. If I can't find the CJ anymore, will run the CK for a short interval and UOA it.
 
Look at the back panel of the new Rotella T-6 CK4 in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4359262/2/Rotella_no_longer_gas_engine_r See the JASO MA rating. That is gas engine rated for motorcycles.

If you want more ZDDP than 1,200 PPM (0.12%), you'll need to go to specialty oils. Valvoline 4-T and others may meet your needs.

As far as diesel engines and motorcycles, most big diesels have roller cam followers and have for decades. Lots of bikes have slipper cam followers. Maybe the same oil will work, maybe not ...

You can always run VR-1 20W-50 or GTX 20W-50 and it should be fine. But you'll be changing oil somewhat more frequently. UOA's will be the name of the game for a while, while all this gets sorted out ...
 
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Look at the back panel of the new Rotella T-6 CK4 in this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4359262/2/Rotella_no_longer_gas_engine_r See the JASO MA rating. That is gas engine rated for motorcycles.

If you want more ZDDP than 1,200 PPM (0.12%), you'll need to go to specialty oils. Valvoline 4-T and others may meet your needs.

As far as diesel engines and motorcycles, most big diesels have roller cam followers and have for decades. Lots of bikes have slipper cam followers. Maybe the same oil will work, maybe not ...

You can always run VR-1 20W-50 or GTX 20W-50 and it should be fine. But you'll be changing oil somewhat more frequently. UOA's will be the name of the game for a while, while all this gets sorted out ...


If one is looking for a high zinc oil for whatever reason, its best to check the UOA and VOAs in here, as some of the oils you mentioned are lower then the C & S rated Diesel/Gasoline oils that you are discounting..

If you look up Castrol GTX 20/50 I think you will find very low Zinc and Phos.

Here is an example of a past UOA I did on Valvoline 4 stroke ... which is also lower then the current Mystik 15/50 I use.
Valvoline 20/50 conv. motorcycle oil
 
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