m1 5w30, 7.2k miles, '16 escape 2L GTDI

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>5% fuel dilution. severity 4

Code:


OIL M1 5W30

MILES IN USE 7257

O&F CHANGED Y

MILES 16.8K

MAKEUP OIL 0

SAMPLE TAKEN 1-MAR-2017

LAB OAI



IRON 20

CHROMIUM 1

NICKEL 1

ALUMINIUM 7

COPPER 6

LEAD 0

TIN 0

CADMIUM 0

SILVER 0

VANADIUM 0

SILICON 18

SODIUM 3

POTASSIUM 23

TITANIUM 0

MOLYBDENUM 84

ANTIMONY 1

MANGANESE 0

LITHIUM 0

BORON 38

MAGNESIUM 667

CALCIUM 1021

BARIUM 0

PHOSPHORUS 637

ZINC 759





WATER 0

cSt @ 212ºF 8.6

FUEL >5%

TAN 2.73

TBN 3.92

OXIDATION 14

NITRATION 15


2016 escape 2LEB fwd. this was 3rd oc. 80% highway. fram TG. OLM @ 27%. in service 6.5 months.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
better than my '16 Honda with 4350mi. did the level grow on the dip stick?

not noticeably. it is a 6qt sump.
 
This UOA was from Polaris/Oil Analyzers, right? I think the oil analysis firms need to recalibrate how they look at fuel dilution. In the old port injection days, fuel dilution of >5% was indicative of a real problem. But with DI, this seems to be more-or-less normal and perhaps harmless. And wear metals seem fine.

This is the first Ford 2.0 EcoBoost UOA I've seen from Polaris, but the level of fuel dilution seems similar to DI Hondas, Hyundais and Kias.

My Honda has fuel dilution too and it bothers me as well. I was actually thinking about dumping it for this reason and buying an Escape. This plan may now be on hold...
 
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Problem is UOAs seem to be unreliable. Maybe have another lab or two do the next one.
 
the industries involved should come up with a statement as to whats going on with the dilution...haven't see this sort of thing since the carburetor days and even that was a small fraction.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
the industries involved should come up with a statement as to whats going on with the dilution...haven't see this sort of thing since the carburetor days and even that was a small fraction.



AGREE - - what is the deal with fuel dilution on DI engines? How is it even possible?
 
Total explains the impact of fuel entering the crankcase and the importance of quality lubricants in this regard.

What happens when the fuel is not fully burned off in the combustion chamber? The answer to this question is also the cause of certain breakdowns, i.e. that the fuel tends to flow towards the crankcase. In fact, it flows down through the piston skirt towards the crankcase, where it mixes with the engine oil.

Once this anomaly happens, there are number of effects. One of these is the washing of the liner walls, the piston skirt and the segments, which implies that the fuel wipes away the oil, leaving the area without lubrication and the liner walls polished.

Although this may sound like everything has been given a great clean, nothing could be further from the truth: in reality, the lack of lubricant means that the surfaces rub against each other, which causes wear. When polished, it is more difficult for the liner to keep the lubricant in the area, which can lead to faults such as the seizing up of the piston and of the liner itself.

Oil dilution

Another effect of fuel leaking into the crankcase is oil dilution. This causes the lubricant to lose viscosity, meaning that the films formed are weaker and less capable of withstanding high loads that can occur at certain points, such as the rod bearings and crankshaft areas.

What happens if the viscosity becomes too low? This causes contact between the metal surfaces, leading to rapid wear of the bearings due to friction.

A third effect of fuel passing through the crankcase is related to biofuel. Currently, both diesel fuel and gasoline include biofuels in their formula (biodiesel in the first case, and bioethanol in the second).

As the fuel is subject to high temperatures in the crankcase, some of it evaporates, meaning that, in the case of diesel fuel, the portion of biofuel becomes concentrated. This causes the biodiesel to be less fluid and more viscous than the diesel fuel, which causes the lubricant to thicken.

For example: if we take a diesel fuel comprised of 7% biodiesel, the diesel fuel portion evaporates in the crankcase, meaning that the concentration of biofuel can amount to more than 10% of biodiesel. Due to this effect, the viscosity of the lubricant and fuel mixture increases, and the wear on the bearings can speed up significantly.

New technologies to the rescue

The problem of fuel passing through the crankcase seems to have eased in recent years. In this regard, the ANAC analyses carried out on heavy vehicles indicate that more than 5% of the samples of engine oil analyzed contained fuel, although concentration was higher in vehicles prior to 2009. This seems to indicate that combustion using current fuel injection systems has improved this issue.

As for light-duty vehicles, several cases have been observed in which the oil level increased instead of decreasing, resulting in several instances where the level far exceeded the maximum mark on the dipstick. Although this may seem like good news, it is not: in such instances, not only does the same dilution problem occur, but it is also particularly serious, given that in such cases the concentration of fuel is very high and can cause rapid wear and engine failure. Occasionally you may detect a drop in pressure and/or power if this is the case.

Some manufacturers have actually added a new notch above the maximum mark as a warning sign. If you notice an increase in the excess level, you should reduce the mileage interval for changing the lubricant by half. This instruction is included in the maintenance manual of the vehicle and must be observed in order to maintain the warranty.

Furthermore, as the lubricant is being used up (1 liter per 10,000 kilometers) and replaced by fuel, the concentration of additives decreases, meaning that part of their protective action of the engine is lost.

In the specific case of diesel cars, diesel fuel also enters the crankcase as a result of post-injection during regeneration so that the fuel gases can reach the crankcase and help the regeneration process by providing heat. As not all diesel fuel turns to gas, part of the fuel enters the crankcase, which produces the dreaded oil dilution.

With regard to gasoline cars, they are now beginning to commercialize TGDI engines, with turbo and direct injection of this fuel, with the objective of increasing their energy efficiency through greater fuel savings and less polluting emissions. The increasing popularity of these engines will mean a higher percentage of gasoline in the oil, along with higher temperatures and operating pressure for lubricants.

Fuel inflow caused by mechanical effect...continued

http://www.lubricants.total.com/news/fuel-dilution-of-engine-oil-causes-and-effects.html
 
M1 PPP etc seems like no benefits at 5,000 mile oil change intervals. I am debating a 0w-40 oil in my ecoboost. Or 5,000 mile oil change intervals. Not really shure.
 
My wife has this engine in a 2016 Edge. I had already settled on Mobil 1 5W30 at 7500 miles. From reading this thread I may use another oil and change it at 5000 miles. If not Mobil 1 which oil?
 
Yeah, there was some dilution but the wear #'s and TBN were fine. I wouldn't shorten the OCI, just follow the OLM. How long did you leave the FF in? What were the previous OCIs and oil used?
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dblshock
the industries involved should come up with a statement as to whats going on with the dilution...haven't see this sort of thing since the carburetor days and even that was a small fraction.



AGREE - - what is the deal with fuel dilution on DI engines? How is it even possible?


Part of it is that fuel injected directly into the combustion chamber has less time to fully vaporize, leaving liquid fuel to work its way past the rings into the sump.

Part of it is the way engine makers deal with low-speed-preignition (LSPI), another DI phenomenon. As LSPI is typically sudden, random and potentially catastrophic, knock sensors aren't quick enough to prevent problems. Instead, under conditions where LSPI may occur (low engine speed, high torque), the fuel mixture is enriched whether LSPI is present or not, making the dilution issue worse. And with ultra-low highway cruising engine speeds in the quest for fuel economy, engines may be in this potential LSPI range a lot. This is obviously a judgement call on the part of the manufacturer and we may be seeing some brands dilute more because the manufacturer is simply more cautious.

Some DI owners have found dilution is less if a higher octane fuel is used. So it could be that, instead of retarding timing when the knock sensors detect traditional pre-ignition, some DI engines are programmed to enrich the mixture instead, further exacerbating the problem.

In other words there are a 10s of million DI beta testers on the roads. Most owners are happily oblivious to the issue, which isn't a bad place to be...
 
Originally Posted By: pb
>5% fuel dilution. severity 4

Code:


OIL M1 5W30

MILES IN USE 7257

O&F CHANGED Y

MILES 16.8K

MAKEUP OIL 0

SAMPLE TAKEN 1-MAR-2017

LAB OAI



IRON 20

CHROMIUM 1

NICKEL 1

ALUMINIUM 7

COPPER 6

LEAD 0

TIN 0

CADMIUM 0

SILVER 0

VANADIUM 0

SILICON 18

SODIUM 3

POTASSIUM 23

TITANIUM 0

MOLYBDENUM 84

ANTIMONY 1

MANGANESE 0

LITHIUM 0

BORON 38

MAGNESIUM 667

CALCIUM 1021

BARIUM 0

PHOSPHORUS 637

ZINC 759





WATER 0

cSt @ 212ºF 8.6

FUEL >5%

TAN 2.73

TBN 3.92

OXIDATION 14

NITRATION 15


2016 escape 2LEB fwd. this was 3rd oc. 80% highway. fram TG. OLM @ 27%. in service 6.5 months.


With your cSt being 8.6 it looks like it entered the xW-20 viscosity range. It looks like Ford knew this would happen with these EB engines and required A 5w-30 SYNBLEND with the option to use a full synthetic meeting Ford's spec in the owner's manual. I believe Honda spec's a 0W-20 oil with their DI turbo engines. That would not give me a "warm and fuzzy" feeling
frown.gif
. If you plan on keeping one of these vehicles to 200,000++ miles maybe going back to the "old" 5,000 mile OC's and not using the OM system to determine one's OC's is the way to go. My wife has a new 2017 Explorer with the 2.3 EB engine. For the OC after the factory fill I'll run it 5,000 miles and do an UOA to see what condition the oil is in and the wear level.

Whimsey
 
I have two oils at home that meet the Ford spec. Mobil 1 5W30 and PYB 5W30. What to use tomorrow? Mobil 1 for 7500 miles or PYB for 5000 miles?
 
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
What about these crazy small filters?


A Motorcraft FL910s really isn't a small filter - it's certainly bigger than Toyota or Honda filters on comparable vehicles. Heck, Honda filters are smaller and are recommended for 2 OCIs, or 20k+ miles. The big issue with this UOA is fuel dilution and the filter has nothing to do with that.
 
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