after smelling the saved jar of UO again real good decided to temporarily discontinue the 640:1 TC-W3 fuel additive because it actually is present in the odor..and I refilled with Delvac 1 5/40 because I had it in stock but will resume with Castrol 0/40 A3/B4 Euro in a couple thousand...I short trip back and forth all work week (4 mi.) and then up to the cabin 240 mi every Friday and back 240 on Sunday week after week.
2016 Honda Civic 1.5T TGDI..DILUTED!
- Thread starter dblshock
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
No need for a turbo in a Civic. Silly that Honda would decide to have a turbo instead of a larger displacement NA engine.
MPG and CAFE are reason as well as uniformity with other markets.
No need for a turbo in a Civic. Silly that Honda would decide to have a turbo instead of a larger displacement NA engine.
MPG and CAFE are reason as well as uniformity with other markets.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Plan to run Delvac 1 for 2k ?
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Plan to run Delvac 1 for 2k ?
I have 1,500 on the Delvac 1 now so a couple more thousand..not planning a UOA I just threw it in cause had it in stock and freaked with the dilution..runs just fine on this heavier swil though.
between the carbon deposit potential, LSPI and fuel dilution this platform juggles alot if issues yet Honda is mute on lubrication. I imagine the guy that goes by the manual on 0/20 and OLM taking it out 12k..that can't be good.
Plan to run Delvac 1 for 2k ?
I have 1,500 on the Delvac 1 now so a couple more thousand..not planning a UOA I just threw it in cause had it in stock and freaked with the dilution..runs just fine on this heavier swil though.
between the carbon deposit potential, LSPI and fuel dilution this platform juggles alot if issues yet Honda is mute on lubrication. I imagine the guy that goes by the manual on 0/20 and OLM taking it out 12k..that can't be good.
Originally Posted By: Danh
And I agree with the "reset" approach. Try it and see what happens.
Rather than show the UOA to the dealer and set the table for a possible warranty argument, I'd suggest a phone call expressing concern about rising oil level and a strong fuel odor from the crankcase. See if they've heard of this or have suggestions. Then explain your plan to have a UOA performed and see if they'd have an interest in seeing it. Make sure whatever you send to the dealer mentions only 0w-20.
Why hide the facts? He didn't use the recommended oil weight. And an additive to boot!
And I agree with the "reset" approach. Try it and see what happens.
Rather than show the UOA to the dealer and set the table for a possible warranty argument, I'd suggest a phone call expressing concern about rising oil level and a strong fuel odor from the crankcase. See if they've heard of this or have suggestions. Then explain your plan to have a UOA performed and see if they'd have an interest in seeing it. Make sure whatever you send to the dealer mentions only 0w-20.
Why hide the facts? He didn't use the recommended oil weight. And an additive to boot!
I 'reset' couple weeks ago including 0/20 oil and sure enough the level is rising at a good clip so went to the dealer today to file a claim, remember I had shared this UOA with the service manager and he shared it with the Honda factory rep for this area. The rep commented that dilution is normal with DI and it's amplified during the cold season, the fact that I short trip to work during the week also adds..anyway, bottom line they can't do anything unless it throws a code. o.k.
also commented I didn't have the spec'd oil (5/30 Mobil 1) but didn't say that was the cause of my concern.
said checking the oil parked in the identical spot was incorrect because I check it cold, S/B checked after 1m hot.
So if I took this out 10-12k I can imagine the sump fluid would grow at least 50% if not 75% and I'm wondering what sort of engine damage might this do? would it then throw a code? for what?
here's the new pics after a fresh 0/20 change 3/25 then after 700mi. 4/1 clearly up alot in such a short time.
also commented I didn't have the spec'd oil (5/30 Mobil 1) but didn't say that was the cause of my concern.
said checking the oil parked in the identical spot was incorrect because I check it cold, S/B checked after 1m hot.
So if I took this out 10-12k I can imagine the sump fluid would grow at least 50% if not 75% and I'm wondering what sort of engine damage might this do? would it then throw a code? for what?
here's the new pics after a fresh 0/20 change 3/25 then after 700mi. 4/1 clearly up alot in such a short time.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
I 'reset' couple weeks ago including 0/20 oil and sure enough the level is rising at a good clip so went to the dealer today to file a claim, remember I had shared this UOA with the service manager and he shared it with the Honda factory rep for this area. The rep commented that dilution is normal with DI and it's amplified during the cold season, the fact that I short trip to work during the week also adds..anyway, bottom line they can't do anything unless it throws a code. o.k.
also commented I didn't have the spec'd oil (5/30 Mobil 1) but didn't say that was the cause of my concern.
said checking the oil parked in the identical spot was incorrect because I check it cold, S/B checked after 1m hot.
So if I took this out 10-12k I can imagine the sump fluid would grow at least 50% if not 75% and I'm wondering what sort of engine damage might this do? would it then throw a code? for what?
here's the new pics after a fresh 0/20 change 3/25 then after 700mi. 4/1 clearly up alot in such a short time.
I can see a problem if your oil level comparison is between hot and cold, but if you're checking it the same way each time either method should show an valid change in level.
You received the same Honda answers I did:
"Don't bother us any more unless it throws a code"
"What oil level increase? Looks fine to us - you must be checking it wrong."
Considering 5% dilution is typically enough to reduce viscosity by a full grade, your pattern would ultimately reduce viscosity below even a 16 weight in short order. Maybe Honda has this all figured out, but as your problem doesn't seem to be unique it's going to be a heck of a problem if they don't...
I 'reset' couple weeks ago including 0/20 oil and sure enough the level is rising at a good clip so went to the dealer today to file a claim, remember I had shared this UOA with the service manager and he shared it with the Honda factory rep for this area. The rep commented that dilution is normal with DI and it's amplified during the cold season, the fact that I short trip to work during the week also adds..anyway, bottom line they can't do anything unless it throws a code. o.k.
also commented I didn't have the spec'd oil (5/30 Mobil 1) but didn't say that was the cause of my concern.
said checking the oil parked in the identical spot was incorrect because I check it cold, S/B checked after 1m hot.
So if I took this out 10-12k I can imagine the sump fluid would grow at least 50% if not 75% and I'm wondering what sort of engine damage might this do? would it then throw a code? for what?
here's the new pics after a fresh 0/20 change 3/25 then after 700mi. 4/1 clearly up alot in such a short time.
I can see a problem if your oil level comparison is between hot and cold, but if you're checking it the same way each time either method should show an valid change in level.
You received the same Honda answers I did:
"Don't bother us any more unless it throws a code"
"What oil level increase? Looks fine to us - you must be checking it wrong."
Considering 5% dilution is typically enough to reduce viscosity by a full grade, your pattern would ultimately reduce viscosity below even a 16 weight in short order. Maybe Honda has this all figured out, but as your problem doesn't seem to be unique it's going to be a heck of a problem if they don't...
Yes, what a mess..if I do what the dealer says and ignore these symptoms and to follow the OLM if/when the motor blows they'll put in a new one, if it goes 60k they won't, and I'll be left with the compromised hardware from there on.
Puts a customer in the position to develop a reasonable maintenance routine on their own..geez.
Puts a customer in the position to develop a reasonable maintenance routine on their own..geez.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I thought I had read on here one time that Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE is more like a heavy 20 than a 30. If that is so that might help as the fuel dilutes down a grade.
Mobil1 0w-30 is actually on the heavier side of the 30 weight spectrum with a 100C cSt of 10.9, iirc. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a decent alternative for the OP, though.
I thought I had read on here one time that Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE is more like a heavy 20 than a 30. If that is so that might help as the fuel dilutes down a grade.
Mobil1 0w-30 is actually on the heavier side of the 30 weight spectrum with a 100C cSt of 10.9, iirc. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a decent alternative for the OP, though.
I'm going with 0/40, after a few weeks I'll draw a quart and replace back to the mid mark, draw it all at 7,500 and replace the Ultra 7317 every 15k. That's my plan anyway and will start this weekend..get the 0/20 gone now that the dealer visit is on record.
Well the dealer covinced the Honda regional guy to look into my dilution problem, they want to do an oil change and monitor the dipstick every 1000 mi.
Question, Danh, do you get dilution all 12mo.? or is this a cold weather event? I took ownership here in mid September and I can't recall if the factory fill was rising, once I dumped it for the 5/30 it was November cold and that's when I knew there was a problem in a rising sump level so I'm thinking the cold had alot to do with it and now the dealer wants it right in time for the warm temps.
Question, Danh, do you get dilution all 12mo.? or is this a cold weather event? I took ownership here in mid September and I can't recall if the factory fill was rising, once I dumped it for the 5/30 it was November cold and that's when I knew there was a problem in a rising sump level so I'm thinking the cold had alot to do with it and now the dealer wants it right in time for the warm temps.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Well the dealer covinced the Honda regional guy to look into my dilution problem, they want to do an oil change and monitor the dipstick every 1000 mi.
Question, Danh, do you get dilution all 12mo.? or is this a cold weather event? I took ownership here in mid September and I can't recall if the factory fill was rising, once I dumped it for the 5/30 it was November cold and that's when I knew there was a problem in a rising sump level so I'm thinking the cold had alot to do with it and now the dealer wants it right in time for the warm temps.
Encouraging that Honda agreed to take a look. I sure didn't get that far.
My increasing sump level is mostly a cold-weather phenomenon, so it could be that Honda will be looking at your issue when it's least-likely to occur. Even the cold-weather connection is puzzling: this was not exactly a bitter winter in the upper Midwest so it's really a difference in behavior between a cold start at 60 degrees and 30. Wouldn't have expected this to matter.
Let us know how this all goes. It would be really interesting to see if a Honda rep would explain why this happens, especially with a brand-new engine design that presumably benefits from all the DI/TGDI experience to date. And why is Honda different from other manufacturers like Mazda and Ford, both of which seem to have wrestled the problem more-or-less to the ground?
Looking through some of the Civic forums, it again looks like your fuel dilution experience is not at all unusual. I haven't seen increasing sump levels reported, but maybe owners aren't that attentive or don't live in cold weather climes.
Well the dealer covinced the Honda regional guy to look into my dilution problem, they want to do an oil change and monitor the dipstick every 1000 mi.
Question, Danh, do you get dilution all 12mo.? or is this a cold weather event? I took ownership here in mid September and I can't recall if the factory fill was rising, once I dumped it for the 5/30 it was November cold and that's when I knew there was a problem in a rising sump level so I'm thinking the cold had alot to do with it and now the dealer wants it right in time for the warm temps.
Encouraging that Honda agreed to take a look. I sure didn't get that far.
My increasing sump level is mostly a cold-weather phenomenon, so it could be that Honda will be looking at your issue when it's least-likely to occur. Even the cold-weather connection is puzzling: this was not exactly a bitter winter in the upper Midwest so it's really a difference in behavior between a cold start at 60 degrees and 30. Wouldn't have expected this to matter.
Let us know how this all goes. It would be really interesting to see if a Honda rep would explain why this happens, especially with a brand-new engine design that presumably benefits from all the DI/TGDI experience to date. And why is Honda different from other manufacturers like Mazda and Ford, both of which seem to have wrestled the problem more-or-less to the ground?
Looking through some of the Civic forums, it again looks like your fuel dilution experience is not at all unusual. I haven't seen increasing sump levels reported, but maybe owners aren't that attentive or don't live in cold weather climes.
Honda and its service advisors will just tell you to follow your owners manual for oil change intervals.
Really nothing they can (will) do for you. It's simply the way this engine was designed.
Really nothing they can (will) do for you. It's simply the way this engine was designed.
Should have bought a Honda; you wouldn't have these problems.
Wait a minute...
Wait a minute...
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Should have bought a Honda; you wouldn't have these problems.
Wait a minute...
I've been having an issue with my VW and thought that very thing, but then you search for problems with current Hondas and see stuff like this (and other issues). It really seems like newer generation vehicles have some serious flaws.
Should have bought a Honda; you wouldn't have these problems.
Wait a minute...
I've been having an issue with my VW and thought that very thing, but then you search for problems with current Hondas and see stuff like this (and other issues). It really seems like newer generation vehicles have some serious flaws.
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