Adding brake fluid to oil to remove ring varnish?

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I'm listening to the February 25, 2017, Hour 1 episode of the "Ron Ananian: The Car Doctor" show ( http://www.tomrayconsulting.com/car_doc_audio/downloadpodcasts.php?file=car_doctor_2pm_02252017.mp3 ).

Ron has a caller that says he thinks he has some varnish deposits that are causing his rings to stick, and wants Rons' advice. Ron tells him to add a quart of brake fluid and run the engine at idle while you carefully monitor it. Ron says he will sometimes do this at his shop and run a car for up to three (3) hours! After that, he'll (of course) change the oil. Ron says this technique is a last resort to un-stick some stubborn varnish deposits off your piston rings.

(If you want to hear the call, it's around 16:30 into the podcast).

My questions are...

1.) Has anyone tried this? I've got think brake fluid circulating throughout your engine would be (at the very least) a huge risk to ruining your seals, wouldn't it?

2.) If you've got really stubborn piston ring deposits, won't some of the oils we discuss all the time (like the Pennzoil yellow bottle?) be a MUCH better way to safely remove ring varnish? Wouldn't the caller be much better to just change to a high detergent oil and wait for the rings to become clean on their own?

Ed
 
Another good suggestion coming from ol' man Sedgwick down at the feed store.

Does he guarantee seal compatibility with glycol ethers?

Does he even know what a glycol ether is?
 
Terrible idea, simply because brake fluid is not engine oil and cannot be trusted to lubricate an SI engine.
For the patient, short intervals of HDEO will work and for the impatient a b12 ring soak will do the same only faster.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
... for the impatient a b12 ring soak will do the same only faster.


This is what I was thinking.
Pour some B12 in the spark plug holes and let it soak down through the rings.

I wouldn't take the chance with brake fluid.
 
I suppose it mostly has to do with the age of the engine (year of MFG). Modern Vitron seals should not be affected by DOT 3 brake fluid. Later series fluids, not so sure...

Older engines with older seal technology could have issues. Say pre-1990 engines.

But since he says it a "last ditch" effort. My guess is it's for clapped out motors that are burning to much oil, would not pass SMOG tests, etc. With those engines, who cares ... The seals are already weeping.

I agree on ring soak being a better idea. But does not work real well on V motors or hardly at all on flat motors (VW, Subie, etc.) B12 is not aggressive enough. Break Free (gun solvent) or KREEN are better choices. So is acetone. For flat motors, you have to come at it from the bottom which this does.

Remember, we are talking worn engines with poor oil history. If the motor was well maintained, none of this is necessary ...
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
Terrible idea, simply because brake fluid is not engine oil and cannot be trusted to lubricate an SI engine.
For the patient, short intervals of HDEO will work and for the impatient a b12 ring soak will do the same only faster.


this
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I suppose it mostly has to do with the age of the engine (year of MFG). Modern Vitron seals should not be affected by DOT 3 brake fluid.


There is more than one type of Viton but it is not recommended for brake fluid contact. EPDM is pretty much the only recommended common automotive elastomer for DOT3/4/5.1 brake fluid.
 
I like all of the "expert" opinions regarding oil advice - and tons of false information. right up there with wax in the oil and cardboard end caps.
 
As many other people have stated, brake fluid would swell up oil seals and make them leak. The best way I have been told to unstick rings is to remove all spark plugs, pour MMO, Seafoam, Berryman B12, or GM Top End Cleaner, and wait a while. That is unlikely to cause seal swelling. Also, the best oil to use is some kind of high mileage oil like Valvoline MaxLife and not use oil additives.
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
..un-stick some stubborn varnish deposits off your piston rings..


Hi Ed. Having never suffered the heartbreak of 'stubborn varnish deposits' on piston rings, I can't speak to the efficacy of Mr. Ananian's recommendation .

My shop often uses TGMO in brake systems, however, with satisfactory results.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: splinter
My shop often uses TGMO in brake systems, however, with satisfactory results.

What?


This has to be sarcasm, surely.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I suppose it mostly has to do with the age of the engine (year of MFG). Modern Vitron seals should not be affected by DOT 3 brake fluid. Later series fluids, not so sure...

Older engines with older seal technology could have issues. Say pre-1990 engines.

But since he says it a "last ditch" effort. My guess is it's for clapped out motors that are burning to much oil, would not pass SMOG tests, etc. With those engines, who cares ... The seals are already weeping.

I agree on ring soak being a better idea. But does not work real well on V motors or hardly at all on flat motors (VW, Subie, etc.) B12 is not aggressive enough. Break Free (gun solvent) or KREEN are better choices. So is acetone. For flat motors, you have to come at it from the bottom which this does.

Remember, we are talking worn engines with poor oil history. If the motor was well maintained, none of this is necessary ...


I've seen you or someone else post about using gun solvent. Any one in particular? Last time I looked into that, CLP had many different products and by their description it wasn't clear which would be the stronger cleaner.
 
Sounds like a pretty dumb idea, from a so called expert. There are much better choices, even for an engine on its death bed.
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
I'm listening to the February 25, 2017, Hour 1 episode of the "Ron Ananian: The Car Doctor" show ( http://www.tomrayconsulting.com/car_doc_audio/downloadpodcasts.php?file=car_doctor_2pm_02252017.mp3 ).

Ron has a caller that says he thinks he has some varnish deposits that are causing his rings to stick, and wants Rons' advice. Ron tells him to add a quart of brake fluid and run the engine at idle while you carefully monitor it. Ron says he will sometimes do this at his shop and run a car for up to three (3) hours! After that, he'll (of course) change the oil. Ron says this technique is a last resort to un-stick some stubborn varnish deposits off your piston rings.

(If you want to hear the call, it's around 16:30 into the podcast).

My questions are...

1.) Has anyone tried this? I've got think brake fluid circulating throughout your engine would be (at the very least) a huge risk to ruining your seals, wouldn't it?

2.) If you've got really stubborn piston ring deposits, won't some of the oils we discuss all the time (like the Pennzoil yellow bottle?) be a MUCH better way to safely remove ring varnish? Wouldn't the caller be much better to just change to a high detergent oil and wait for the rings to become clean on their own?

Ed



Hi Ed

Let me underline this;; adding brake fluid is a LAST RESORT; when you have nothing else left to try or can think of doing; it is not to be done as the ONLY fluid in the crankcase but added to the EXISTING OIL. Yes, there is enough in there to lubricate; I don't claim this as my idea; something I learned from engine builders that have done it for years. To date no reported seal issues (another wives tales from people that don't know) and no reported claims of engine failure as a result. Yes, it sounds wrong but it has worked in the instances I needed to resort to it. But do it under the advice that YES anything can happen BUT as a LAST resort before engine rebuilding in some cases its worth a shot; NO, its not a suggested reguslar maintenance item or suggestion....Ron
 
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