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Interesting read on the Panama Canal (Wiki) - they used pollution for a goal they thought was worthy enough ...
RIP chlorine containing products 1930-2017
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MolaKule
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Overwhelmed by the disease-plagued country and forced to use often dilapidated French infrastructure and equipment,[33] as well as being frustrated by the overly bureaucratic ICC, Wallace resigned abruptly in June 1905.[34] He was succeeded by John Frank Stevens, a self-educated engineer who had built the Great Northern Railroad.[35] Stevens was not a member of the ICC; he increasingly viewed its bureaucracy as a serious hindrance, bypassing the commission and sending requests and demands directly to the Roosevelt Administration in Washington.
Wiki
Overwhelmed by the disease-plagued country and forced to use often dilapidated French infrastructure and equipment,[33] as well as being frustrated by the overly bureaucratic ICC, Wallace resigned abruptly in June 1905.[34] He was succeeded by John Frank Stevens, a self-educated engineer who had built the Great Northern Railroad.[35] Stevens was not a member of the ICC; he increasingly viewed its bureaucracy as a serious hindrance, bypassing the commission and sending requests and demands directly to the Roosevelt Administration in Washington.
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Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
DDT did its job, and in the process nearly wiped out many species not intended to be affected. DDT ended up being one of the most dangerous chemicals ever concocted and used by man with the dangers greatly outweighing any benefits.
But they were SO SURE, though!
They were so built up on their conceit that they couldn't possibly go wrong! They have pictures of babies and food and veggies and steer, it's good for everything!! The verbiage is the same emotional play used today. "You love you kids, right? Gas them with Agent Orange, babies grow fatter and healthier!" and "Miracle product kills every living thing (except you, of course)!" Why were they so sure? Could it be the conceit? Of course it was the conceit. The verbiage in those old thyme ads for mercury and thorium are not foreign to us, we see the same bamboozling, ultra-sure verbiage used to promote dubious products today. The whole "nature is your enemy, natural order is ineffective, you cannot survive with out Dow, Merck, Pfizer, BASF, Bayer etc" is a real campaign. Science has been so badly corrupted IMO, it's turned to portraying (certain) mankind as infallible, much more nuanced and civilized than the wild savages of yore. That nature is nothing but a coincidence; a stupid coincidence that demands to be subdued and brought to it's knees. That your own consciousness is worthless misguidance with no proof and evidence to back it up. (What) That you shall be impressed with an institution and subsequently contract your intellect to conclusions they derive and promote, because we're advanced and much smarter than all those stupid old people.
Shortly, science has been hijacked for the purpose of breeding conceit- blinding, crippling, self-satisfying conceit which in turn breeds insensible unwavering complicity, which itself is very valuable to propagating politically motivated and corrupt 'science'. Combined with the extremly fanatical and polarizing attitude that "anything less is total rejection of ALL science". Come on, guys.
Of course, I don't believe they "didn't" know. Someone knew. But money and a greed and potentially eugenics combined with abusing science to compel people to insensibly support such is a very real thing.
DDT did its job, and in the process nearly wiped out many species not intended to be affected. DDT ended up being one of the most dangerous chemicals ever concocted and used by man with the dangers greatly outweighing any benefits.
But they were SO SURE, though!
Shortly, science has been hijacked for the purpose of breeding conceit- blinding, crippling, self-satisfying conceit which in turn breeds insensible unwavering complicity, which itself is very valuable to propagating politically motivated and corrupt 'science'. Combined with the extremly fanatical and polarizing attitude that "anything less is total rejection of ALL science". Come on, guys.
Of course, I don't believe they "didn't" know. Someone knew. But money and a greed and potentially eugenics combined with abusing science to compel people to insensibly support such is a very real thing.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
acute toxicity
Misleading. Thorium has an even lower acute toxicity. That doesn't matter anyway because you're somehow arguing a case for DDT. What would compel someone to do that?
acute toxicity
Misleading. Thorium has an even lower acute toxicity. That doesn't matter anyway because you're somehow arguing a case for DDT. What would compel someone to do that?
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
acute toxicity
Misleading. Thorium has an even lower acute toxicity. That doesn't matter anyway because you're somehow arguing a case for DDT. What would compel someone to do that?
Excellent question, here in the lower great lakes it took 20 years to start to see a turn around in wildlife after DDT was banned as it was/is ingrained into the food web. When the bald eagles finally started to reproduce the nests were failing because the egg shells were too thin. It was determined the few remaining adults were still loaded up with DDT as their main diet is fish.
It has been long enough now that our eagle population is second in the nation, only behind Alaska in numbers. I 'm not sure of the year it was banned but I believe it was the late 60's. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to defend its use.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
acute toxicity
Misleading. Thorium has an even lower acute toxicity. That doesn't matter anyway because you're somehow arguing a case for DDT. What would compel someone to do that?
Excellent question, here in the lower great lakes it took 20 years to start to see a turn around in wildlife after DDT was banned as it was/is ingrained into the food web. When the bald eagles finally started to reproduce the nests were failing because the egg shells were too thin. It was determined the few remaining adults were still loaded up with DDT as their main diet is fish.
It has been long enough now that our eagle population is second in the nation, only behind Alaska in numbers. I 'm not sure of the year it was banned but I believe it was the late 60's. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to defend its use.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Another set of views regarding DDT:
That's always the unfortunate part, and we get hit with this malarkey a lot up here. There's always this dichotomy that you have to be allowed to use a chemical willy nilly without any regard for anyone or anything, and if that doesn't work, it has to be banned from all but memory.
And for those wondering why there is skepticism, it's because each time one of these chemicals is railed against incessantly (either my media or legislation), there winds up being a very unpleasant unintended consequence that comes out of the woodwork. A few years back, Canada severely restricted the concentration of Deet permissible in mosquito repellents. Okay, if some people don't want a lot of Deet, don't buy the stuff. Great. But, if I want to use Muskol with 95% Deet because I'm going into the woods during a West Nile breakout, that's my business.
Another set of views regarding DDT:
That's always the unfortunate part, and we get hit with this malarkey a lot up here. There's always this dichotomy that you have to be allowed to use a chemical willy nilly without any regard for anyone or anything, and if that doesn't work, it has to be banned from all but memory.
And for those wondering why there is skepticism, it's because each time one of these chemicals is railed against incessantly (either my media or legislation), there winds up being a very unpleasant unintended consequence that comes out of the woodwork. A few years back, Canada severely restricted the concentration of Deet permissible in mosquito repellents. Okay, if some people don't want a lot of Deet, don't buy the stuff. Great. But, if I want to use Muskol with 95% Deet because I'm going into the woods during a West Nile breakout, that's my business.
Like I said, one doesn't have to blanket the areas with these products. Nothing gets used judiciously.
Originally Posted By: Darkfire
Originally Posted By: Diesel_Don
Looks like the EPA is stopping the production (and importation) of chlorinated paraffin containing products in the middle of 2017. Its a good lubricant but not so much in engines due to accelerated wear over time and potentially creating hazardous waste. I know theres plenty of additives out there with them Duralube, MK, Prolong, etc.
I wonder what the companies will switch to, chlorinated paraffins are hard to beat for cost/lubricating ability. Be on the lookout since they can still technically sell them, they just have to stop producing them.
Wouldnt mind making a list of products, if you guys know any more off the top of your head; and then we can watch to see how they react in the next few months. Most of them are smaller companies but maybe theyll come up with some new technology.
Does this mean they won't be able to make MMO anymore as it's currently formulated?
Marvel Mystery Oil as far as I remember is just light oil with some mineral spirits, phosphorus, red dye and some wintergreen scent
Originally Posted By: Diesel_Don
Looks like the EPA is stopping the production (and importation) of chlorinated paraffin containing products in the middle of 2017. Its a good lubricant but not so much in engines due to accelerated wear over time and potentially creating hazardous waste. I know theres plenty of additives out there with them Duralube, MK, Prolong, etc.
I wonder what the companies will switch to, chlorinated paraffins are hard to beat for cost/lubricating ability. Be on the lookout since they can still technically sell them, they just have to stop producing them.
Wouldnt mind making a list of products, if you guys know any more off the top of your head; and then we can watch to see how they react in the next few months. Most of them are smaller companies but maybe theyll come up with some new technology.
Does this mean they won't be able to make MMO anymore as it's currently formulated?
Marvel Mystery Oil as far as I remember is just light oil with some mineral spirits, phosphorus, red dye and some wintergreen scent
Originally Posted By: man114
Marvel Mystery Oil as far as I remember is just light oil with some mineral spirits, phosphorus, red dye and some wintergreen scent
Mmmhh yes, that stuff does smell magnificent.
Marvel Mystery Oil as far as I remember is just light oil with some mineral spirits, phosphorus, red dye and some wintergreen scent
Mmmhh yes, that stuff does smell magnificent.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: man114
Darkfire said:
and when taken off the market, how many humans died because of malaria? what was the % increase from being legal to being banned? just facts no politics.
I wouldn't know the answer to that, and coming up with a number would be problematic. There isn't some mathematical correlation between a specific insecticide's availability and malaria deaths. There are far more variables than that. Heck, correlating mosquito numbers to DDT availability would very difficult on its own.
Originally Posted By: Garak
I wouldn't know the answer to that, and coming up with a number would be problematic. There isn't some mathematical correlation between a specific insecticide's availability and malaria deaths. There are far more variables than that. Heck, correlating mosquito numbers to DDT availability would very difficult on its own.
Look at malarial death numbers before, during, and after the use of DDT and correct it for change in overall population. Won't be able to correct for better treatment of malaria but you should be able to get something out of that data.
I wouldn't know the answer to that, and coming up with a number would be problematic. There isn't some mathematical correlation between a specific insecticide's availability and malaria deaths. There are far more variables than that. Heck, correlating mosquito numbers to DDT availability would very difficult on its own.
Look at malarial death numbers before, during, and after the use of DDT and correct it for change in overall population. Won't be able to correct for better treatment of malaria but you should be able to get something out of that data.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: BalticBob
MMO formula is a mystery, NO ONE knows what is in it!
Just like the Coca-Cola formula is a secret, impossible to know what it is!
But it is a marvelous oil, that is for sure.
We know what is in it because this was a comprehensive analysis done at a university, and not a $28 BlackStone analysis.
Read the link:
Lab Analysis of MMO
I am still seeking an answer as to what advantages it has for modern engines and oils.
As a quick flush for a sludged engine, maybe?
MMO formula is a mystery, NO ONE knows what is in it!
Just like the Coca-Cola formula is a secret, impossible to know what it is!
But it is a marvelous oil, that is for sure.
We know what is in it because this was a comprehensive analysis done at a university, and not a $28 BlackStone analysis.
Read the link:
Lab Analysis of MMO
I am still seeking an answer as to what advantages it has for modern engines and oils.
As a quick flush for a sludged engine, maybe?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I am still seeking an answer as to what advantages it has for modern engines and oils.
As a quick flush for a sludged engine, maybe?
It is amazing as a fuel additive in aircraft piston engines that run leaded gasoline,
to help scavenge the lead by-products out of the engine.
I would like to see a scientific analysis of whether it benefits high mileage modern engines, or not (as a fuel additive, specifically)
I am still seeking an answer as to what advantages it has for modern engines and oils.
As a quick flush for a sludged engine, maybe?
It is amazing as a fuel additive in aircraft piston engines that run leaded gasoline,
to help scavenge the lead by-products out of the engine.
I would like to see a scientific analysis of whether it benefits high mileage modern engines, or not (as a fuel additive, specifically)
They can go ahead and make their silly laws if it makes them feel good. Nobody is going to stop me from pouring chlorine bleach into my engines whenever I feel like it.
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