UOA: Paper vs KN Air Filter

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I just saw this video and wanted to ask the experts here if this video accurate in interpretation of the silicon and wear metals.
 
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Umm, I wasn't asking for another filter test...
I was asking if the video's interpretation of silicon and wear metals is accurate...
 
Originally Posted By: M54B30
I just saw this video and wanted to ask the experts here if this video accurate in interpretation of the silicon and wear metals.
https://youtu.be/uvExyfxzsRo


It seemed accurate to me, I didn't see anything that was out of order. Of course now the K&N haters will come out but you can't argue with results, although there is some question as to whether his driving habits and area were the same for both.
 
Thank you for your response on the silicon & wear metals, that is what I was looking for.
I completely understand and agree about driving habits and area.

I was a little surprised by the hate for the K&N. It seems like after market oil filters are OK, but not air filters.
Anyways, I only use OE Mahle in my 530.
 
Interesting video. I quit using K&N air filters because there was dirt in my intake pipe after the filter when I used a K&N. Went back to paper and no more dirt. Of course, that was years ago. They may be better now.
 
Originally Posted By: M54B30
Umm, I wasn't asking for another filter test...
I was asking if the video's interpretation of silicon and wear metals is accurate...


Yes I am sorry I didn't want to derail your thread I just wanted to share that with anyone who wasn't aware of it.

I got into a discussion with a KN rep on a YouTube video where he touted how good their filters are and showed me his ISO 5011 test report for the coarse dust test and said how good it was but when I asked for fine dust test he got defensive and then I shared that Spicer test and he deleted all my comments from the video.

I will share the coarse dust test if anyone's interested.

Notice how the efficiency is a higher number because the coarse dust test uses larger size particles overall.


 
Sadly, just today, I removed my expensive K&N panel filter from the wife's car (w/22K miles on it) and installed the WIX WA10215 (Synthetic media, 99.5%, ~$19 at O'Reilly) due to my concerns with how well REALLY do K&N filter's hold up. I never was really expecting a big performance improvement by using K&N but I was hoping for a slight gas mileage improvement. I didn't have ANY issues I can point to other than slightly higher Si numbers in my BlackStone labs report (~17ppm running ~5K miles on M1 0W-30 oil). I was just too nervous about running with this filter long-term. I want to keep my car for 200K miles or more.
 
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
... but I was hoping for a slight gas mileage improvement. ...
There's zero reason to hope for that in any modern vehicle, and only slight chance of slight improvement with an old vehicle.
 
Youre asking for accuracy of the claims made? Well, the numbers dont lie, and the results are in the noise as far as sampling goes. Even for the same sample, 6% standard deviation should be considered normal.

Si isnt the only indicator of dirt. Some places might have other components in the dirt at higher levels.

The K&N is more "open", which then requires the use of an oil to help grab and hold particles. Even if it does hold these, the wild cards are if it holds as much, what happens as the oil dries, and if the oil migrates. Thats what worried me the most - oil migration on the MAF sensor, and knowing when to clean and how much to oil it.

Additionally, adding the same size panel doesn't fix any restriction issues that might be intrinsic. Intakes seem to be better configured these days, but if there is a restriction to be overcome, the panel is only a minor piece in the puzzle.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: M54B30
Umm, I wasn't asking for another filter test...
I was asking if the video's interpretation of silicon and wear metals is accurate...


Yes I am sorry I didn't want to derail your thread I just wanted to share that with anyone who wasn't aware of it.

I got into a discussion with a KN rep on a YouTube video where he touted how good their filters are and showed me his ISO 5011 test report for the coarse dust test and said how good it was but when I asked for fine dust test he got defensive and then I shared that Spicer test and he deleted all my comments from the video.



My phone's screen is too small to do justice on the charts of your previous post:
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm



It seems that the K&N falls short in many ways to the other filters....

/hijack
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Youre asking for accuracy of the claims made? Well, the numbers dont lie, and the results are in the noise as far as sampling goes. Even for the same sample, 6% standard deviation should be considered normal.

Si isnt the only indicator of dirt. Some places might have other components in the dirt at higher levels.

The K&N is more "open", which then requires the use of an oil to help grab and hold particles. Even if it does hold these, the wild cards are if it holds as much, what happens as the oil dries, and if the oil migrates. Thats what worried me the most - oil migration on the MAF sensor, and knowing when to clean and how much to oil it.

Additionally, adding the same size panel doesn't fix any restriction issues that might be intrinsic. Intakes seem to be better configured these days, but if there is a restriction to be overcome, the panel is only a minor piece in the puzzle.


Thank you for your succinct response.
What do you mean by "Some places might have other components in the dirt at higher levels"
What are other indicators of dirt other than silicon?
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: M54B30
Umm, I wasn't asking for another filter test...
I was asking if the video's interpretation of silicon and wear metals is accurate...


Yes I am sorry I didn't want to derail your thread I just wanted to share that with anyone who wasn't aware of it.

I got into a discussion with a KN rep on a YouTube video where he touted how good their filters are and showed me his ISO 5011 test report for the coarse dust test and said how good it was but when I asked for fine dust test he got defensive and then I shared that Spicer test and he deleted all my comments from the video.


My phone's screen is too small to do justice on the charts of your previous post:
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm


It seems that the K&N falls short in many ways to the other filters....

/hijack

No worries, I appreciate the response.
As for "K&N falling short" you might want to have a quick look at this: https://youtu.be/uf2Do9dQzn4
 
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Sadly, just today, I removed my expensive K&N panel filter from the wife's car (w/22K miles on it) and installed the WIX WA10215 (Synthetic media, 99.5%, ~$19 at O'Reilly) due to my concerns with how well REALLY do K&N filter's hold up. I never was really expecting a big performance improvement by using K&N but I was hoping for a slight gas mileage improvement. I didn't have ANY issues I can point to other than slightly higher Si numbers in my BlackStone labs report (~17ppm running ~5K miles on M1 0W-30 oil). I was just too nervous about running with this filter long-term. I want to keep my car for 200K miles or more.

Just one question... If you are so concerned with silicon, what are you using a oil that has 4 ppm of silicon in it? https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3769017/Re:_VOA:__Mobil-1_ESP_X1_0W-30

I assume there must be other oils that don't have silicon in them.
 
You don't need to do UOAs when a K&N air filter has been used. Just wipe a white tissue along the inside of the clean side of the airbox for silicon and hold a magnet beside the stream of draining oil for iron.
 
Originally Posted By: M54B30
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Sadly, just today, I removed my expensive K&N panel filter from the wife's car (w/22K miles on it) and installed the WIX WA10215 (Synthetic media, 99.5%, ~$19 at O'Reilly) due to my concerns with how well REALLY do K&N filter's hold up. I never was really expecting a big performance improvement by using K&N but I was hoping for a slight gas mileage improvement. I didn't have ANY issues I can point to other than slightly higher Si numbers in my BlackStone labs report (~17ppm running ~5K miles on M1 0W-30 oil). I was just too nervous about running with this filter long-term. I want to keep my car for 200K miles or more.

Just one question... If you are so concerned with silicon, what are you using a oil that has 4 ppm of silicon in it? https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3769017/Re:_VOA:__Mobil-1_ESP_X1_0W-30

I assume there must be other oils that don't have silicon in them.


Sorry, I should have been more specific. I run the M1 AFE 0W-30 oil, not the ESP version.
To your bigger question, I would not consider Si in the form that comes from the virgin oil itself to be a problem as it is not from dirt (Sand, etc.). My BlackStone report seems to think that perhaps it was from the new engine seals (first report, Si was at 25ppm with stock air filter in place, same oil type/brand however) and that the K&N filter (I asked about it) was doing its job. I'm just too nervous about it. I did have a bad experience (recurrent CEL) with a K&N filter on my S80 Volvo. It was fine however on my '98 Nissan Maxima SE when I owned it. So a mixed bag of sorts in my three cars which used the oiled K&N panel filters.
 
Thank you for the videos posted. Sadly, this site is one of the worst when it comes to k&n filter hate. I just ignore it, and enjoy the forums for the other valuable info found. Never believe everything your told, that's why I tell people to try things out for themselves. Let your own experience be the biggest contributor of whether something works as claimed or not. If you want to find out if k&n works for you go down to Advanced Auto, or whatever supplier you trust, and purchase a drop in. I know at Advanced they come with a 30 day warranty. At the end of three weeks you should know if there is any performance or mpg increase. At the same time open the intake and swipe the clean side to see if you've found particulates or oil residue. If you did take the k&n out, clean the MAF with CRC MAF cleaner, and replace with a paper filter of your choice. If that sounds like too much work for you; then continue to believe whatever hoo-doo, voo-doo, mumbo-jumbo advice that helps you sleep better at night.
 
Originally Posted By: M54B30
If you are so concerned with silicon, what are you using a oil that has 4 ppm of silicon in it? https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3769017/Re:_VOA:__Mobil-1_ESP_X1_0W-30

I assume there must be other oils that don't have silicon in them.


The silicon you speak of in virgin oil is not the same as abrasive silica found in uoas. In the oil it's present as an additive.
 
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