Ram 1500 EcoDiesel - approved oils

Status
Not open for further replies.
Plenty of A3/B4 synthetic 5w40 out there as well. This spec is usually associated with Cummins 20081 and uses MB 229.51 standards.

The spec also changed recently, a (TSB) released by Fiat-Chrysler (FCA) on July 20, 2016. The bulletin pertains to an engine oil upgrade from 5W-30 to 5W-40 for the 2016 Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee models with the EcoDiesel engine. This bulletin directs Chrysler-Jeep dealers to drain the factory-fill 5W-30 motor oil and replace it with 5W-40 motor oil.

Apparently there were a ton of main bearing failures and it is suspected the 5w30 oil was too thin.
 
Last edited:
There are not a "ton" of main bearing issues. The total is far less than 1% of production. FCA felt that the TCM "economy" programming was causing the engine to lug at low rpm which in a few cases caused main bearing "chatter" caused by the engine lugging. FCA's solution was to reprogrammed the TCM to downshift sooner and rev higher before shifting. At the same time they decided to go to the new oil spec. My 2016 Jeep GC EcoDiesel got the free oil change but 2014-2015 owners don't.

Any CJ-4 spec'd 5w40 oil will work...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Any brand diesel oil rated cj4 or new ck4 in a 5w40.


So don't worry so much about the MS-10902 spec?
 
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Any CJ-4 spec'd 5w40 oil will work...


So that's x2 for CJ-4 5w40... same follow up as above, don't worry so much about MS-10902 spec?
 
Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
So don't worry so much about the MS-10902 spec?


CJ-4 5w40 IS MS-10902...
 
Originally Posted By: BoiseRob
Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
So don't worry so much about the MS-10902 spec?


CJ-4 5w40 IS MS-10902...



OK, my understanding was that it had to be a 5w40 that meets MS-10902 and CJ-4.
 
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
CJ4 is being fazed out and being replaced with CK4.
Any CJ4 or CK4 is DPF and EGR friendly, the CK4 probably even friendlier.

Depends. T6 if you compare to C3 oils is actually high-SAPS oil. It would never be able to meet C3 spec.
There are different demands for commercial SCR systems and personal vehicles.
 
They are on a lower limit of a A3/B4 regarding SAPS levels. I was using E6 oil in a PSA HDI 2013 and now I'm using VSP MST. Rate of regeneration didn't change with different specification, however it does change as oil gets older.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
They are on a lower limit of a A3/B4 regarding SAPS levels. I was using E6 oil in a PSA HDI 2013 and now I'm using VSP MST. Rate of regeneration didn't change with different specification, however it does change as oil gets older.

On top of that T6 has NOACK 12.6%.
 
Don't know all the European specs or if they even matter. I do know a European spec oil was being used when the Ecodiesel engines were having problems and now a USA spec is recommended instead. It could be just a simple FCA wanted a heavier weight oil but their are European 5w40 as has been pointed out. FCA wants a CJ4 which is now being fazed out and a new and improved formula of CK4. I would also like to point out the emissions equipment on the EcoDiesel is north America equipment not European spec.
 
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Don't know all the European specs or if they even matter. I do know a European spec oil was being used when the Ecodiesel engines were having problems and now a USA spec is recommended instead. It could be just a simple FCA wanted a heavier weight oil but their are European 5w40 as has been pointed out. FCA wants a CJ4 which is now being fazed out and a new and improved formula of CK4. I would also like to point out the emissions equipment on the EcoDiesel is north America equipment not European spec.

What?
You are actually comparing CJ4 and CK with MB 229.51, BMW LL-04? API specs. are not heavier or lighter. You have Euro oils which are heavy and light and meet MUCH, MUCH more stringent specs. then API specs. (which average olive oil in Costco can meet). What FCA is doing is simplifying for average consumer oil choice. That doe not mean you have to use T6, you can actually find much better oils that have lower NOACK, are 5W40 grade and more friendly to SCR system.
ACEA A3/B3 B4 specs. are still more stringent due to wear requirements, stay in grade requirements etc.
By the way, Euro VI and US emission specs are almost same, so yes, DPF will be affected by using T6, which is average oil. Only reason why T6 gain footing among BITOG community is that it was readily available heavy oil that could deal with first gen. DI engines that had fuel dilution problems.
But it is good morning laugh, American are heavy spec. and European are light spec. LOL.
 
Last edited:
Actually, given the characteristics of the new CK-4, I am convinced that it more than meets anything this engine needs. I have owned VM engines, which is the builder of this one. It actually was a VM/GM collaboration back prior to GM financial woes and GM sold off it's 50% stake in VM. Fiat bought it up. And the 3.0 that VM/GM had developed then moved on to become the Ecodiesel that sits in the 1500. The 3.0L V6 VM engine has been around for over a decade and used elsewhere in the world. It just got a new name of "Ecodiesel" when dropped in the Fiat/Mopar vehicles. I am convinced it was more about a sexier name for the N.American market than using VM Motori or Fiat. VM engines have been using CJ-4 oils since that spec showed up. I bought my last VM engine in 2006 when the CJ-4 spec went into effect. All it had was CJ-4 oil.

This whole idea that CJ-4 and the new CK-4 are somehow not adequate to do the job has no basis in reality. CK-4 especially since it is significantly better than CJ-4 and has a lower SAPS on top of that. And given that CK-4 oil is all over the place now, the arguments previously used before have little substance.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: pwr2tow
Don't know all the European specs or if they even matter. I do know a European spec oil was being used when the Ecodiesel engines were having problems and now a USA spec is recommended instead. It could be just a simple FCA wanted a heavier weight oil but their are European 5w40 as has been pointed out. FCA wants a CJ4 which is now being fazed out and a new and improved formula of CK4. I would also like to point out the emissions equipment on the EcoDiesel is north America equipment not European spec.

What?
You are actually comparing CJ4 and CK with MB 229.51, BMW LL-04? API specs. are not heavier or lighter. You have Euro oils which are heavy and light and meet MUCH, MUCH more stringent specs. then API specs. (which average olive oil in Costco can meet). What FCA is doing is simplifying for average consumer oil choice. That doe not mean you have to use T6, you can actually find much better oils that have lower NOACK, are 5W40 grade and more friendly to SCR system.
ACEA A3/B3 B4 specs. are still more stringent due to wear requirements, stay in grade requirements etc.
By the way, Euro VI and US emission specs are almost same, so yes, DPF will be affected by using T6, which is average oil. Only reason why T6 gain footing among BITOG community is that it was readily available heavy oil that could deal with first gen. DI engines that had fuel dilution problems.
But it is good morning laugh, American are heavy spec. and European are light spec. LOL.


Rotella t6 5w40 CJ4, ACEA E9. Don't know the ACEA of CK4, I assume even better.

By the way, I'm not brand loyal, I like delo.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Actually, given the characteristics of the new CK-4, I am convinced that it more than meets anything this engine needs. I have owned VM engines, which is the builder of this one. It actually was a VM/GM collaboration back prior to GM financial woes and GM sold off it's 50% stake in VM. Fiat bought it up. And the 3.0 that VM/GM had developed then moved on to become the Ecodiesel that sits in the 1500. The 3.0L V6 VM engine has been around for over a decade and used elsewhere in the world. It just got a new name of "Ecodiesel" when dropped in the Fiat/Mopar vehicles. I am convinced it was more about a sexier name for the N.American market than using VM Motori or Fiat. VM engines have been using CJ-4 oils since that spec showed up. I bought my last VM engine in 2006 when the CJ-4 spec went into effect. All it had was CJ-4 oil.

This whole idea that CJ-4 and the new CK-4 are somehow not adequate to do the job has no basis in reality. CK-4 especially since it is significantly better than CJ-4 and has a lower SAPS on top of that. And given that CK-4 oil is all over the place now, the arguments previously used before have little substance.

I owned several VM engines. They are great manufacturer of engines. Shell Rotella T6 some other equal HD oil will protect engine no questions asked.
Point is that SCR/DPF system in that vehicle is designed around C3 oils, and there are oils out there that meet both ACEA A3/B3 and C3 like Valvoline 5W40 MST, or Amsoil 5W40 ESP etc. They have lower NOACK too, good HTHS etc.
All this time I am asking whether FCA extended warranty on SCR/DPF and no one is answering that. That would be my first question to FCA. If using CJ-4 or CK is same as C3, then why going with C3 in the beginning? All idea of C3 is protection of SCR/DPF, and now suddenly they are saying: oh forget that.
 
Like I said I'm not that knowledgeable about ACEA classifications but I was told ACEA E9 is a better oil than ACEA C3. The only difference is C3 is slightly lower SAPS then E9.

The argument on SAPS is really only a concern if the engine burns oil? Pretty much the same on any emissions engine be it gas or diesel. Or is it more to due with sludge build up from modern engines running higher temperatures?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Actually, given the characteristics of the new CK-4, I am convinced that it more than meets anything this engine needs. I have owned VM engines, which is the builder of this one. It actually was a VM/GM collaboration back prior to GM financial woes and GM sold off it's 50% stake in VM. Fiat bought it up. And the 3.0 that VM/GM had developed then moved on to become the Ecodiesel that sits in the 1500. The 3.0L V6 VM engine has been around for over a decade and used elsewhere in the world. It just got a new name of "Ecodiesel" when dropped in the Fiat/Mopar vehicles. I am convinced it was more about a sexier name for the N.American market than using VM Motori or Fiat. VM engines have been using CJ-4 oils since that spec showed up. I bought my last VM engine in 2006 when the CJ-4 spec went into effect. All it had was CJ-4 oil.

This whole idea that CJ-4 and the new CK-4 are somehow not adequate to do the job has no basis in reality. CK-4 especially since it is significantly better than CJ-4 and has a lower SAPS on top of that. And given that CK-4 oil is all over the place now, the arguments previously used before have little substance.

I owned several VM engines. They are great manufacturer of engines. Shell Rotella T6 some other equal HD oil will protect engine no questions asked.
Point is that SCR/DPF system in that vehicle is designed around C3 oils, and there are oils out there that meet both ACEA A3/B3 and C3 like Valvoline 5W40 MST, or Amsoil 5W40 ESP etc. They have lower NOACK too, good HTHS etc.
All this time I am asking whether FCA extended warranty on SCR/DPF and no one is answering that. That would be my first question to FCA. If using CJ-4 or CK is same as C3, then why going with C3 in the beginning? All idea of C3 is protection of SCR/DPF, and now suddenly they are saying: oh forget that.


Too my knowledge, no FCA is not extending emissions warranty.

My take on the C3 thing is just a left over from a European manufacturer buying into USA. I don't think FCA is saying oh just forget emissions longevity. It's more a learning curve with their relationship with Cummins and their success with emissions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top