Kitchen Cabinets need painted

[Tdbo]

I'm looking for a paint product recommendation.
We have birch cabinets in our kitchen, and about 20 years ago, Mrs. Tdbo came to the conclusion after watching too many home improvement shows. that they must be painted.
So they were. We used an oil based primer and followed up with latex paint, as we were instructed to at the local paint store. We used Pittsburgh Paint products.
Time has come to repaint them again, and I'm not sure that I want to use PPG products again in this application.
I'm looking for the things that one would anticipate in a kitchen setting: durability, easy to clean, good coverage, easy to apply, etc. I'm not caught up with any brand preference or with cost, as I probably will need a gallon at most.
Opinions? Thanks in advance.

 

[pwolf1]

Youtube has a few great videos from pros

 

[pandus13]

are you looking for a certain color?

don't laugh: marine grade gel stain... it comes in many colors

not recommended: anything big box...

But, with anything (durability and presentation/looks) IT'S ALL IN THE PREP WORK!

Demarpaint, can you help our BITOG-in-need-brother?

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
are you looking for a certain color?

don't laugh: marine grade gel stain... it comes in many colors

not recommended: anything big box...

But, with anything (durability and presentation/looks) IT'S ALL IN THE PREP WORK!

Demarpaint, can you help our BITOG-in-need-brother?



Just looking at a basic white, with the least amount of gloss possible.
The local paint store that I frequent (they are a small business, good guys) is PPG exclusively. I have no real gripes with the product we used, but would like to see if there is something that covers better. I think our prep at the time was pretty good, only normal wear on the doors and drawer faces. The Mrs. did most of the work the first time. She used a brush and brush marks are somewhat prevalent. I will probably use a small, fine nap roller.

 

[SHOZ]

I used some outdoor satin white a couple years ago made by Dutch Boy. It's called Max Bond and seems to be quite durable and covered well. Got it at Menards.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Tdbo
The Mrs. did most of the work the first time. She used a brush and brush marks are somewhat prevalent. I will probably use a small, fine nap roller.


i think they are 2 products: Floetrol and Penetrol (one for latex paints and one for oil paints) which prolongs the paint "workability"/flowing/self-leveling properties.
the rest is in the tool (really good brush/roller cover) and technique/application.
paintbrush linky

beside user Demarpaint (30+ years experience), we have a couple others PRO-painters here on board.

comparing with them, i'm a wee little pup.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
are you looking for a certain color?

don't laugh: marine grade gel stain... it comes in many colors

not recommended: anything big box...

But, with anything (durability and presentation/looks) IT'S ALL IN THE PREP WORK!

Demarpaint, can you help our BITOG-in-need-brother?


Sure. Repaint cabinets that were already primed and painted with latex paint: I would wash the cabinets first with a diluted mix of simple green and water, about a 50/50 mix. Reason being you don't want to sand grease from cooking in the kitchen into the finish on the cabinets. Once they're clean lightly scuff sand them with 220 sand paper, the operative word is light. All you want to do is break the gloss to give the paint some tooth. Dust them then wash the cabinets again to remove all sanding dust.

If you don't like the gloss of a semi gloss latex paint try a satin finish.

I would suggest removing all doors and hardware, and paint the doors in a horizontal position, once dry flip to do the other side. Painting of the exterior area of the cabinets will be a lot easier with the doors off, and you'll get a much better job. Paint the doors so that the final coat is applied to the outside of the door, if you're painting both sides of the doors.

I prefer Muralo paints for trim, and cabinets, top of the line Behr is very good also. Benjamin Moore products don't cut the mustard for cabinets. I also like to work with a brush. If you're going to use a roller try a nice small Whiz Microfiber roller to apply the paint and while still wet back brush it, or see if you like the finish of the roller. Get a scrap of pine, prime it paint and experiment with different rollers and painting techniques. Corona Sabre Champagne Nylon brushes are very good for this type of work. A good brush is worth its weight in gold for trim work.

Now if you're concerned with lead based paint, all you can safely do it wash the cabinets, prime them with an adhesion promoting primer like 123, or Aqua-lock and repaint them.


Edit: Latex paint can be cut with a bit of water, you can also use Floetrol. For me that is a last resort though, I'm not a big fan of it on cabinets.
Less gloss than Satin is Egg Shell, however I find it a bit ropy on trim. Satin 'IMO' is a better choice.
Spot prime raw wood with a good oil primer sealer.

 

[Tdbo]

Thank you Demarpaint.
I was going to clean them with TSP. However, good to know that Simple Green does the job also. They have some minor brush strokes on them, therefore the thought of a small roller.
Have never heard of Muralo, must be a regional brand. Nice to know the Behr is good. Do you have recommendation(s) on other brands for this application?

 

[demarpaint]

You're welcome. Coronado paints are very good, top of the line Pittsburgh is also good.

TSP is fine as well for cleaning. I buy Simple Green by the case and found it to be very good. It cuts dirt and grease very well, and I can mix it accordingly. I use a damp cloth with straight up water as a last step before a quick MF towel dry.

Once you have brush marks rolling over the surface might still show the marks, especially with latex paint unless you sand them out. As I said, get a scrap and fool around a bit. Cabinets are a focal point in a kitchen and you want them looking good. I found applying the paint to the doors and then back brushing them while they're still wet lays the paint down nicely. Some rollers leave a God awful orange peel look. I don't want to say trial and error, but if you haven't painted cabinets in a while it is good to get an idea of what paint application tool is going to give you the best results. Scrap wood works great for that.

I've sprayed them too, but that's a whole new ballgame.

 

[Killer223]

use the TSP, find a local kellymore dealer and get durapoxy,. it's still a latex of sorts. if you must use a roller get a foam roller. i use the "winnie" roller that are about 4" long.

i would never use a normal latex paint on cabinets, as it just doesn't hold up.
the best to use would be an oil, or even a conversion varnish from an airless. but i don't think you at the level.

for the home owner, get the kelly more Durapoxy, http://kellymoore.com/products/product-lines/1687 it's hands down the best thing you can use. flows nice, and is hard as rock when done. i've done dozens of kitchens with this.

 

[dave123]

Only paints that belong on kitchen cabinets are Conversion Varnish or 2k polyurethane.

 

[demarpaint]

Lots of good info here. Unfortunately the OP already painted the cabinets with latex paint, there were better choices. At this point with proper prep and a good quality latex paint he can get a good job that will last, and retain its color. I've done kitchen cabinets that were painted with latex trim paint by either homeowners or professionals prior to us. These customers were looking for a budget job. We've used the Muralo paint I suggested and I've seen cabinets that were done 10 years or more with it still looking good. As I said there were better choices for the OP, but this would be an easy option that can yield nice results.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Benjamin Moore products don't cut the mustard for cabinets.


I was surprised to see that. The alkyd satin impervo enamel is/was the product that set the standard for many years. In this case the OP cannot use oil base over latex.

I do concede that BM's latex Impervo enamel does not measure up with the pros (I learn from the paint shop at my workplace).

What about their newer Aura and Advance lines of paint? I haven't used them yet.

Finally, I have used this BM Cabinet Coat once on some lockers and am very pleased with it so far: http://www.insl-x.com/product-detail/inslx-products/cabinet-coat-enamel

This site has good discussions of kitchen cabinet refinishing, both paint and stain/clear finish: http://www.sawmillcreek.org


I agree that the OP's challenge is that any product he uses is only as good as the first paint that he used. If that first coat is softer or has adhesion problems, the second coat may not achieve its potential.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Benjamin Moore products don't cut the mustard for cabinets.


I was surprised to see that. The alkyd satin impervo enamel is/was the product that set the standard for many years. In this case the OP cannot use oil base over latex.

I do concede that BM's latex Impervo enamel does not measure up with the pros (I learn from the paint shop at my workplace).

What about their newer Aura and Advance lines of paint? I haven't used them yet.

Finally, I have used this BM Cabinet Coat once on some lockers and am very pleased with it so far: http://www.insl-x.com/product-detail/inslx-products/cabinet-coat-enamel

This site has good discussions of kitchen cabinet refinishing, both paint and stain/clear finish: http://www.sawmillcreek.org


I agree that the OP's challenge is that any product he uses is only as good as the first paint that he used. If that first coat is softer or has adhesion problems, the second coat may not achieve its potential.




To clear things up a bit I was referring to BM latex trim products, sorry for the confusion. The OP had used latex in the past, my reply was addressing that. Imo the Moore latex interior trim products in a word, suck, in comparison to other offerings. Satin Impervo alkyd based was fantastic, then only good after the VOC laws came into play. In high end residential work I still use it, the only problem is pure white doesn't stay white for long, and that has to be spelled out to the customer.

Aura is over priced and over hyped. Advance, OK nothing great either. BM figured out a way to get prices for latex paint into the $75+/gallon range with Aura. I remember inviting a BM rep pushing it hard at a PDCA meeting to a job site to prove to me how Aura covered over any color in 1 coat with a brush and roller of his choice. He left looking stupid. LOL If a customer wants it and is willing to pay the up charge, I'll use it.

A point of interest [maybe] BM Select paints use the Aura colorants/tints to make the colors. Select is quite a bit less $$ than Aura. Over the years customers have requested Behr Paints, and I found their higher end product line to be quite good. The only problem I found was actually going to HD and buying it. My local paint store is a much better run operation the HD's paint department. So if a customer wants Behr paint, my life is a lot easier if they supply it.

 

[Tdbo]

Thanks for all the input. I'll update with some more information.
I went downstairs and dug out the can of top finish that was used. It was Pittsburgh Kitchen,Bath and Trim paint. I marked the date on the can indicating when we did the job. It will be 22 years in April. It was the top of the line paint that our local paint store had at the time. I am not a believer in cheap paint, I feel that it is false economy in that you use twice as much and paint twice as often.
In looking at the kitchen, I would have to say that the paint has held up well. There have been no issues with adhesion. The paint on the boxes looks like new. The signs of visible wear are on the doors and drawer faces around the knobs and pulls. Some wear is visible on those surfaces due to cleaning. If I really wanted to half-rump the job, I could probably get away with doing just the drawer faces and doors. More than likely, I will do the whole thing, just to refresh the surface.
I guess it comes down to what best practice was at the time. My wife reminded me that she taped a segment of a HGTV show that demonstrated how to paint cabinets (HGTV has been the bane of my existence, BTW.) I talked with a number of people, including a friends dad who was a professional painter at the time, and the consensus was sand them, oil based primer and apply a latex finish. So that is what we did, using the best materials that we could get at the time. The cat's meow would have been to have had them sprayed, but that IMO was not feasible in a kitchen that was used during the process.
I would guess that technology in paint has advanced some in the last 22 years.
The Muralo paint looks interesting, but the closest retailer is about 90 minutes away. I also want to look into the insl-x product that doitmyself linked to because it is available locally. I could just go down to the local store that has always treated me well and buy more PPG, but I remember that I didn't like how that paint covered at the time. However, it has held up well.
I hate painted cabinets and the only reason that they became painted is because of Mrs. Tdbo. As anyone who has ever been married knows, you pick your battles.
That one didn't seem worth the loss of political capital.

 

[pandus13]

insl-x can be ordered at home depot also if not available locally.
seems to have a good small reputation in the DYI rehab-ers world (as a cabinet paint).

compliments to ms. TDBO.

as to Mr TDBO, how is retirement, and what oils/greases have been used in that kitchen?

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
insl-x can be ordered at home depot also if not available locally.
seems to have a good small reputation in the DYI rehab-ers world (as a cabinet paint).

compliments to ms. TDBO.

as to Mr TDBO, how is retirement, and what oils/greases have been used in that kitchen?


Thanks for asking, Pandus.
Retirement is great. I miss neither the stress or the drive.
Sometimes I get bored. I was looking at second careers and then decided if I wanted anything it was a job. Something that would bring in enough cash that would satisfy my requirement that any additions/remodeling of the house would be financed by additional cashflow, not by my investments. Have eyes out for such opportunities.
As for the second part of your question, EVOO and Canola. Not a whole lot of heavy frying going on.
Good to know that insl-x can be ordered from Homer. Just cashed out some AMEX points for Homer gift cards. Hmmm.......

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Good to know that insl-x can be ordered from Homer. Just cashed out some AMEX points for Homer gift cards. Hmmm.......

a birdie told me Lowes has cheap 10% off coupons on ebay...
honored at HomeDepot....!
additional, are you a veteran?

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Good to know that insl-x can be ordered from Homer. Just cashed out some AMEX points for Homer gift cards. Hmmm.......

a birdie told me Lowes has cheap 10% off coupons on ebay...
honored at HomeDepot....!
additional, are you a veteran?



Good to know on the coupon.
No, not a vet.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Retirement is great. I miss neither the stress or the drive.
Sometimes I get bored. I was looking at second careers and then decided if I wanted anything it was a job.

"If you like what you do, you'll never work one hour in your life...."