Acura TB replacement - 105k or 84 months?
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Originally Posted By: Lubener
Keep in mind the ones telling you to hold off wouldn't be out of anything should it break.
Right! Getting some great advice here. Several things are driving my decision, some are valid and some are not. This is my wife's car and I do not want her stranded. I am 68 and know this car will need one complete TB replacement. It really does not matter if I do it now or wait a few years except maybe I will not be able to do it myself by then. At my age you start thinking about that stuff, especially when your two best friends died last year. I tend to over maintain my cars because I am a perfectionist and because I love learning how to do new mechanical things. My wife says don't do it now partly because of an experience we had with her 99 Lexus RX 300. I did a whole bunch of stuff early including new struts on all 4 corners. One day a 95 year old man got "confused" and t-boned her legally parked car doing about 50. Fortunately it was unoccupied but it was totalled and I lost a ton of dough with that premature maintenance.
Keep in mind the ones telling you to hold off wouldn't be out of anything should it break.
Right! Getting some great advice here. Several things are driving my decision, some are valid and some are not. This is my wife's car and I do not want her stranded. I am 68 and know this car will need one complete TB replacement. It really does not matter if I do it now or wait a few years except maybe I will not be able to do it myself by then. At my age you start thinking about that stuff, especially when your two best friends died last year. I tend to over maintain my cars because I am a perfectionist and because I love learning how to do new mechanical things. My wife says don't do it now partly because of an experience we had with her 99 Lexus RX 300. I did a whole bunch of stuff early including new struts on all 4 corners. One day a 95 year old man got "confused" and t-boned her legally parked car doing about 50. Fortunately it was unoccupied but it was totalled and I lost a ton of dough with that premature maintenance.
I'm just curious if you are planning on changing the belt only...
When do you buy the part?
Before taking the belt off?
Or
After you have decided if anything else needs to be replaced?
The biggest hassle to me of wrenching on a car is being without that car for X period of time.
A $20 bearing that I chose not to order is not going to leave me without the car for days.
Time is money.
When do you buy the part?
Before taking the belt off?
Or
After you have decided if anything else needs to be replaced?
The biggest hassle to me of wrenching on a car is being without that car for X period of time.
A $20 bearing that I chose not to order is not going to leave me without the car for days.
Time is money.
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I had to read this post a couple times. The first time I read it, I kept thinking to myself, "Why is this guy changing his throttle body at a mileage or time interval?" The initials "TB" really got me.
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
I'm just curious if you are planning on changing the belt only...
When do you buy the part?
Before taking the belt off?
Or
After you have decided if anything else needs to be replaced?
The biggest hassle to me of wrenching on a car is being without that car for X period of time.
A $20 bearing that I chose not to order is not going to leave me without the car for days.
Time is money.
Depends. If I do right now, I am leaning towards replacing belt only if other parts look ok. I will then do complete job at around 105k. You can see that WP and hydraulic tensioner are not leaking. Will have to remove TB to spin idlers and WP. We are retired so no problem operating with one car for as long as it takes. We do not consider one car an inconvenience and most likely will go down to one car when I retire my 99 Avalon although she only has 135k miles and runs smooth as silk.
I'm just curious if you are planning on changing the belt only...
When do you buy the part?
Before taking the belt off?
Or
After you have decided if anything else needs to be replaced?
The biggest hassle to me of wrenching on a car is being without that car for X period of time.
A $20 bearing that I chose not to order is not going to leave me without the car for days.
Time is money.
Depends. If I do right now, I am leaning towards replacing belt only if other parts look ok. I will then do complete job at around 105k. You can see that WP and hydraulic tensioner are not leaking. Will have to remove TB to spin idlers and WP. We are retired so no problem operating with one car for as long as it takes. We do not consider one car an inconvenience and most likely will go down to one car when I retire my 99 Avalon although she only has 135k miles and runs smooth as silk.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
I spend lots of time reading my OM and FSM. Neither specifies timing belt replacement interval.
Look at pages 510 and 522 of your Owner's Manual. The interval is specified there. Give me a valid email address and I can send you a copy of the Acura PDF.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Since the MM works only on miles, I can not depend on it for an 84 month alert.
It considers time as well, among other factors.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
If I do replace TB at 84 months, can I wait until 105k miles for WP, etc assuming they inspect ok? IOW, replace TB now and do entire kit at 105k miles.
You could do that. But then you're paying twice for the labor for the belt.
Considering that you plan on replacing the water pump and tensioner anyway at a later date, why wouldn't you do it all at the same time? It would be the last time you ever do those items on this car either way.
Your method would simply kick part of the job downhill a few miles, double your labor on the belt portion, and require the car to be in the shop twice instead of once.
I spend lots of time reading my OM and FSM. Neither specifies timing belt replacement interval.
Look at pages 510 and 522 of your Owner's Manual. The interval is specified there. Give me a valid email address and I can send you a copy of the Acura PDF.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Since the MM works only on miles, I can not depend on it for an 84 month alert.
It considers time as well, among other factors.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
If I do replace TB at 84 months, can I wait until 105k miles for WP, etc assuming they inspect ok? IOW, replace TB now and do entire kit at 105k miles.
You could do that. But then you're paying twice for the labor for the belt.
Considering that you plan on replacing the water pump and tensioner anyway at a later date, why wouldn't you do it all at the same time? It would be the last time you ever do those items on this car either way.
Your method would simply kick part of the job downhill a few miles, double your labor on the belt portion, and require the car to be in the shop twice instead of once.
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
You are kidding right?
Timing belt and water pump replaced costs are 90% labor.
Electing to not change all the components is a really dumb idea.... especially if you aren't doing the work yourself
Surprisingly my Acura dealer wanted $900 for water pump and some else. I choose tensioner and timing belt on my 2007 MDX for $600.
I have yet to hit a water pump problem on any vehicle I owned into 200k range including our 2005 Legacy turbo with timing belt changed at 105k & 170k and factory water pump at 215,000 miles.
You are kidding right?
Timing belt and water pump replaced costs are 90% labor.
Electing to not change all the components is a really dumb idea.... especially if you aren't doing the work yourself
Surprisingly my Acura dealer wanted $900 for water pump and some else. I choose tensioner and timing belt on my 2007 MDX for $600.
I have yet to hit a water pump problem on any vehicle I owned into 200k range including our 2005 Legacy turbo with timing belt changed at 105k & 170k and factory water pump at 215,000 miles.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: artbuc
I spend lots of time reading my OM and FSM. Neither specifies timing belt replacement interval.
Look at pages 510 and 522 of your Owner's Manual. The interval is specified there. Give me a valid email address and I can send you a copy of the Acura PDF.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Since the MM works only on miles, I can not depend on it for an 84 month alert.
It considers time as well, among other factors.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
If I do replace TB at 84 months, can I wait until 105k miles for WP, etc assuming they inspect ok? IOW, replace TB now and do entire kit at 105k miles.
You could do that. But then you're paying twice for the labor for the belt.
Considering that you plan on replacing the water pump and tensioner anyway at a later date, why wouldn't you do it all at the same time? It would be the last time you ever do those items on this car either way.
Your method would simply kick part of the job downhill a few miles, double your labor on the belt portion, and require the car to be in the shop twice instead of once.
Thanks Tegger. I do not pay for labor...I actually enjoy wrenching on my cars. Pages 510 and 522 do not give a service interval except for regular driving over 110 F, below -20F or towing a trailer. That does not apply to me or most folks. If the MM consider elapsed time, why does Honda specifically call for brake fluid replacement every 3 years or annual oil change if 12 months comes before oil life percentage drops to zero?
Originally Posted By: artbuc
I spend lots of time reading my OM and FSM. Neither specifies timing belt replacement interval.
Look at pages 510 and 522 of your Owner's Manual. The interval is specified there. Give me a valid email address and I can send you a copy of the Acura PDF.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Since the MM works only on miles, I can not depend on it for an 84 month alert.
It considers time as well, among other factors.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
If I do replace TB at 84 months, can I wait until 105k miles for WP, etc assuming they inspect ok? IOW, replace TB now and do entire kit at 105k miles.
You could do that. But then you're paying twice for the labor for the belt.
Considering that you plan on replacing the water pump and tensioner anyway at a later date, why wouldn't you do it all at the same time? It would be the last time you ever do those items on this car either way.
Your method would simply kick part of the job downhill a few miles, double your labor on the belt portion, and require the car to be in the shop twice instead of once.
Thanks Tegger. I do not pay for labor...I actually enjoy wrenching on my cars. Pages 510 and 522 do not give a service interval except for regular driving over 110 F, below -20F or towing a trailer. That does not apply to me or most folks. If the MM consider elapsed time, why does Honda specifically call for brake fluid replacement every 3 years or annual oil change if 12 months comes before oil life percentage drops to zero?
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Originally Posted By: artbuc
Pages 510 and 522 do not give a service interval except for regular driving over 110 F, below -20F or towing a trailer.
Correct. Outside of those "severe" parameters, you change the belt when the Minder shows that Service 4 is required. If you haven't seen Service 4 come due, then you can leave the belt alone.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
If the MM consider elapsed time, why does Honda specifically call for brake fluid replacement every 3 years or annual oil change if 12 months comes before oil life percentage drops to zero?
Honda specifically left those out of the Minder system because those items are limited by the calendar and by no other factor.
The Maintenance Minder calculates maintenance intervals according to engine running conditions; it can tell the difference between steady long-haul driving and lots of short trips.
The Minder's logic will also store up items: It will wait until an oil change is due, and then alert you with all the required items bunched together so they can be done all at once.
Pages 510 and 522 do not give a service interval except for regular driving over 110 F, below -20F or towing a trailer.
Correct. Outside of those "severe" parameters, you change the belt when the Minder shows that Service 4 is required. If you haven't seen Service 4 come due, then you can leave the belt alone.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
If the MM consider elapsed time, why does Honda specifically call for brake fluid replacement every 3 years or annual oil change if 12 months comes before oil life percentage drops to zero?
Honda specifically left those out of the Minder system because those items are limited by the calendar and by no other factor.
The Maintenance Minder calculates maintenance intervals according to engine running conditions; it can tell the difference between steady long-haul driving and lots of short trips.
The Minder's logic will also store up items: It will wait until an oil change is due, and then alert you with all the required items bunched together so they can be done all at once.
Tegger, we are going in circles. What triggers B4 service? 105k miles or 84 months? Yes, I agree the MM does what you say it does but you are not giving me a straight answer regarding elapsed time. I think waiting around for the MM to tell you to do something when you do not even understand how it works is not a good plan.
Also, you are wrong about the oil change interval. It is not a calendar only item. It is based on percentage oil life remaining but Honda has to state change annually because obviously the MM can not and does not do that.
Also, you are wrong about the oil change interval. It is not a calendar only item. It is based on percentage oil life remaining but Honda has to state change annually because obviously the MM can not and does not do that.
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Originally Posted By: artbuc
Tegger, we are going in circles. What triggers B4 service? 105k miles or 84 months?
Whichever comes first. Maintenance Minder settings and data are stored in the ECM and the gauge control module in NVRAM. Even if you disconnect the battery, the Maintenance Minder knows how many days and miles have passed since that service was performed and the Minder reset.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Also, you are wrong about the oil change interval. It is not a calendar only item. It is based on percentage oil life remaining but Honda has to state change annually because obviously the MM can not and does not do that.
As I said, the more-than-12-month thing is a calendar-only item. I did not say that more-frequent changes were calendar-only.
From Honda Service News issue Sept/05, explaining the new Maintenance Minder system:
"Some scheduled maintenance items are
independent of the maintenance minder system.
The brake fluid should be replaced every
3 years, the idle speed should be inspected
every 160,000 miles, and the valves adjusted
if they’re noisy...For owners who only drive
their vehicles occasionally, and the oil life
never reaches 15% at the end of a 12-month period
since the engine oil was last replaced, the
engine oil should be replaced and the oil life
indicator reset to 100%."
Tegger, we are going in circles. What triggers B4 service? 105k miles or 84 months?
Whichever comes first. Maintenance Minder settings and data are stored in the ECM and the gauge control module in NVRAM. Even if you disconnect the battery, the Maintenance Minder knows how many days and miles have passed since that service was performed and the Minder reset.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Also, you are wrong about the oil change interval. It is not a calendar only item. It is based on percentage oil life remaining but Honda has to state change annually because obviously the MM can not and does not do that.
As I said, the more-than-12-month thing is a calendar-only item. I did not say that more-frequent changes were calendar-only.
From Honda Service News issue Sept/05, explaining the new Maintenance Minder system:
"Some scheduled maintenance items are
independent of the maintenance minder system.
The brake fluid should be replaced every
3 years, the idle speed should be inspected
every 160,000 miles, and the valves adjusted
if they’re noisy...For owners who only drive
their vehicles occasionally, and the oil life
never reaches 15% at the end of a 12-month period
since the engine oil was last replaced, the
engine oil should be replaced and the oil life
indicator reset to 100%."
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Ok, but I still do not understand why Honda does not use the MM to alert for annual (if required) oil change and brake fluid replacement if works the way you say. It's like buying a fancy calculator that does everything you can imagine except you still have to balance your checkbook by hand.
We will know soon because car hits 84 months in April. MM did not give B4 service reminder when I last reset it on 9/28/16. I change oil every 5k and reset MM. Usually remaining oil life is 50-60%. Next oil change will be in April. I will not reset MM. Will report back if/when MM gives me a B4 reminder. If my understanding of MM is incorrect I will be the first one to say so. Thanks for your forbearance.
We will know soon because car hits 84 months in April. MM did not give B4 service reminder when I last reset it on 9/28/16. I change oil every 5k and reset MM. Usually remaining oil life is 50-60%. Next oil change will be in April. I will not reset MM. Will report back if/when MM gives me a B4 reminder. If my understanding of MM is incorrect I will be the first one to say so. Thanks for your forbearance.
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Actually, the more I think about it, the 84 month interval must have started when it was driven off the ship, unless the dealer activates MM at time of delivery to me.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
84 month should start when the car was manufactured aka rolled off the assembly line aka even before getting on or off the boat.
Right, so I must have a dumb MM who lost track of time.
84 month should start when the car was manufactured aka rolled off the assembly line aka even before getting on or off the boat.
Right, so I must have a dumb MM who lost track of time.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
unless the dealer activates MM at time of delivery to me.
Activation of the Maintenance Minder is not part of TQI (pre-delivery inspection).
I would also guess that it starts counting from the very first startup at the factory. Maybe the Minder considers more than just 84mo/105K miles when deciding to specify a Service 4.
unless the dealer activates MM at time of delivery to me.
Activation of the Maintenance Minder is not part of TQI (pre-delivery inspection).
I would also guess that it starts counting from the very first startup at the factory. Maybe the Minder considers more than just 84mo/105K miles when deciding to specify a Service 4.
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: artbuc
unless the dealer activates MM at time of delivery to me.
Activation of the Maintenance Minder is not part of TQI (pre-delivery inspection).
I would also guess that it starts counting from the very first startup at the factory. Maybe the Minder considers more than just 84mo/105K miles when deciding to specify a Service 4.
Tegger, you had me almost 100% convinced you knew how the MM worked! I think part of the confusion comes from MM function changing slightly from year to year. My OM does not mention anything about time...it only mentions engine revolutions, starts, stops, mileage, etc. I talked to my dealer's Service Department and they assured me my MM will not trigger B4 based on months. Now, I would be the last person in the world who would assume an Acura dealer Service Department knew anything about my car, but I pass their comment along fwiw.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
unless the dealer activates MM at time of delivery to me.
Activation of the Maintenance Minder is not part of TQI (pre-delivery inspection).
I would also guess that it starts counting from the very first startup at the factory. Maybe the Minder considers more than just 84mo/105K miles when deciding to specify a Service 4.
Tegger, you had me almost 100% convinced you knew how the MM worked! I think part of the confusion comes from MM function changing slightly from year to year. My OM does not mention anything about time...it only mentions engine revolutions, starts, stops, mileage, etc. I talked to my dealer's Service Department and they assured me my MM will not trigger B4 based on months. Now, I would be the last person in the world who would assume an Acura dealer Service Department knew anything about my car, but I pass their comment along fwiw.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Tegger, you had me almost 100% convinced you knew how the MM worked!
I had myself convinced, too.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
My OM does not mention anything about time...it only mentions engine revolutions, starts, stops, mileage, etc. I talked to my dealer's Service Department and they assured me my MM will not trigger B4 based on months. Now, I would be the last person in the world who would assume an Acura dealer Service Department knew anything about my car, but I pass their comment along fwiw.
I did some checking on my end, and it appears that your guys are correct. Months are not part of the Maintenance Minder.
Apparently this is why the annual oil-change, 3-year brake fluid change, etc, are not part of the Maintenance Minder, because the Minder does not consider months, and those items are determined solely by months.
Tegger, you had me almost 100% convinced you knew how the MM worked!
I had myself convinced, too.
Originally Posted By: artbuc
My OM does not mention anything about time...it only mentions engine revolutions, starts, stops, mileage, etc. I talked to my dealer's Service Department and they assured me my MM will not trigger B4 based on months. Now, I would be the last person in the world who would assume an Acura dealer Service Department knew anything about my car, but I pass their comment along fwiw.
I did some checking on my end, and it appears that your guys are correct. Months are not part of the Maintenance Minder.
Apparently this is why the annual oil-change, 3-year brake fluid change, etc, are not part of the Maintenance Minder, because the Minder does not consider months, and those items are determined solely by months.
Originally Posted By: thorromig
Whats the old saying -- if it aint broke _________________ !!!!
That doesn't really work with timing belts. When they break you are usually SOL.
Whats the old saying -- if it aint broke _________________ !!!!
That doesn't really work with timing belts. When they break you are usually SOL.
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