Window Winder Won't

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Manual Window -Winder Problem

The manual windows on my 1986 car have been getting stiff for a while, and last week the drivers side jammed open. The bottom of the glass is held in the window winding mechanism by a silicone rubber sealant which tore free, causing the glass to drop out of the guides. I can put it back but if i wind the window down more than about a quarter it jams on the way back up



As you wind the window further down, it pulls further away from the winder mechanism at the back, and moves out of the slider channel at the front.





I have actually bought very strong sticky black silicone rubber sealant here in the past, that might do the job, but I can't remember what brand it was, and probably wont be able to buy the same stuff again. I have some red automotive RTV that I could try but it doesn't seem to have as much tensile strength, so will probably not stay in.

It might try tying some fishing line across the top of the glass to help pull it down and take some of the strain off the sealant, though it may not be possible to feed past the bottom window seal.

Duct tape/Duck tape over the silicone might also help

I can lubricate at least part of the wiper mechanism with chassis grease, silicone grease, or anti-seize, and it might take some of the strain off the winder handle (these are getting brittle and will be hard to replace) but wont affect the tensile stress on the sealant, so wont stop the glass pulling out of the bracket.

To do that, it might help more to lubricate the window guide channels, but I'm not sure what to use. I'm thinking maybe silicone grease, a wax, or a soap. Somethimg like graphite powder or a Teflon-based grease might be better but I can't remember seeing either of them for sale here. Perhaps working some teflon plumbers tape into the guide would help, though it wouldn't be likely to stay in place for long.

Any suggestions?
 
Side window problems of misalignment, binding, etc. almost always come down to the regulator joints and slides being worn out, and the only cure is to replace the whole mechanism with a new one.
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Any suggestions?


Sure. Replace the 30+ year old rusty, worn out mechanism.
Yah , But I don't think Ducked wants to hear that. You need to remove the whole assembly, clean off the old saponified grease, regrease tighten up the goop holding the window in. and adjust so the window doesn't jam. Do the Taiwanese have the product Shoo Goo? It works great on repairing the soles of my work shoes. Apples and oranges, I went through 2 power window rehabs on the 528e this winter. The driver's only needed cleaning ,greasing and adjustment to work good as new. Keep us posted Ducked. Non illegitamae carborundum
grin2.gif
 
I helped a friend restore a 66 GTO and we removed and cleaned and lube the regulators and a few months later bought new parts and replaced all the old parts.
 
Wow, that looks dry, dusty and dirty. What a mess. I'd clean it up as much as possible, some damp rags, a nylon brush, and then some spray lube will go a very long way.

If it's held in with some sealant, I'd remove all the old stuff, then bed in the piece into some new material.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
I helped a friend restore a 66 GTO and we removed and cleaned and lube the regulators and a few months later bought new parts and replaced all the old parts.


Why did you replace? I removed and relubed the regulators in my 82 Mercedes, and they are perfect.
 
That's not silicone but a special flexible epoxy. Urethane, silicone and hard epoxy doesn't work well in this application for very long, this is the stuff you need 3M 08641.

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com//3m-auto...CFZOPswodGNULZA

Start by removing the regulator and cleaning and lubing it so it works properly then clean the old stuff off the glass and prime it with rubbing alcohol. Put plenty of the epoxy on each tab and close the window tightly to set the position then leave it shut for 24 hrs. An auto parts store should be able to order it for you.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: CT8
I helped a friend restore a 66 GTO and we removed and cleaned and lube the regulators and a few months later bought new parts and replaced all the old parts.


Why did you replace? I removed and relubed the regulators in my 82 Mercedes, and they are perfect.
The owner of the car wasn't happy with how they operated. The regulators were somewhat worn. 1966 is way older than 1982 .
 
A replacement mechanism probably won't be available.

I think its also unlikely I can get the 3M stuff here either but its potentially useful to know what it is.

I might be able to get it posted, but I note they'll only ground-ship within the continental US, quite usual with this sort of thing.
 
Originally Posted By: andyd
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Any suggestions?


Sure. Replace the 30+ year old rusty, worn out mechanism.
Yah , But I don't think Ducked wants to hear that. You need to remove the whole assembly, clean off the old saponified grease, regrease tighten up the goop holding the window in. and adjust so the window doesn't jam. Do the Taiwanese have the product Shoo Goo? It works great on repairing the soles of my work shoes. Apples and oranges, I went through 2 power window rehabs on the 528e this winter. The driver's only needed cleaning ,greasing and adjustment to work good as new. Keep us posted Ducked. Non illegitamae carborundum
grin2.gif



Rust on the winder mechanism looks bad but doesn't seem to be directly relevant. I'll give it a bit of a clean and lube (though I doubt its worth removing it) but I don't think it was the issue.

The issue was apparently excess tension on the join between the glass and the mechanism, and that seems likely to caused by the glasses resistance to movement on the descent.

That in turn seems likely to be caused by dirt, wear, deterioration and/or distortion of the guides at the front and back of the window, and the weather seal along the bottom.

I doubt I'll be able to replace these, though I could remove the weather seal (which seems to cause some resistance) or perhaps shave it down.

Anything I lubricate the weather seal with is likely to end up covering the window so that's probably out.

What would be the best lubricant for the front and back window guide channels?
 
When the regulator is worn, the window won't follow its intended geometric path (usually straight down), which makes it jam in the guides. Amateurs then say there must be something wrong with the guides, but it's not. It's the regulator. Then someone kept wailing on the handle until the brackets got pulled off of the glass.

You should shop for a new regulator. There are aftermarket ones for most cars, as it's a part that often needs replacing during the life of the car.
 
Originally Posted By: mk378
When the regulator is worn, the window won't follow its intended geometric path (usually straight down), which makes it jam in the guides. Amateurs then say there must be something wrong with the guides, but it's not. It's the regulator. Then someone kept wailing on the handle until the brackets got pulled off of the glass.

You should shop for a new regulator. There are aftermarket ones for most cars, as it's a part that often needs replacing during the life of the car.


Yeh, I was starting to think maybe the winder mechanism was somehow putting it out of alignment. I'll enquire about new parts. Failing that a scrap one is a slight possibility, though there won't be many of these still in scrapyards.
 
Well I cleaned it up a bit, sprayed WD40 around a bit, rubbed down the rust in the C-channel of the winder, greased it with EP lithium grease and put silicon grease in the window sliders (rather sparingly, since I dunno where to get it locally)



Didn't take the winder apart, since I couldn't get a socket on the recessed glass bracket screws and they weren't coming out with a screwdriver, though I suppose I might have tried harder if I had thought taking it out would do any good.

Seems to move a bit better but the glass still goes out of alignment, unsurprising since its only attached at the front.

If the glass-sticking goo is unobtainium locally I might try contact adhesive and seatbelt webbing, which should give some flexibility. I understand some cars have alignment aid "buttons" to guide the glass into the groove, so I might try and improvise something like that, either outside or inside. Meanwhile I'll have to limit it to less than half open.

Since I might not take it apart anytime soon I may put spray grease on it.

I've got some "3M Silicone lubricant (Dry Type)". Not sure if it has a solvent carrier or not.



How about that for the window sliders?
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: CT8
I helped a friend restore a 66 GTO and we removed and cleaned and lube the regulators and a few months later bought new parts and replaced all the old parts.


Why did you replace? I removed and relubed the regulators in my 82 Mercedes, and they are perfect.
The owner of the car wasn't happy with how they operated. The regulators were somewhat worn. 1966 is way older than 1982 .


I get it thats its a lot older... i was just curious what wasnt working right... because while Ive had issues with recent plastic regulators, the old metal stuff, if not bent, seems very seevicable.
 
Some half -arsed improvisations

Fishing line hold down for window glass.



The line goes over the top of the window



The edge of a heavy polythene lay-flat field irrigation hose (already has a crease) fitted into, and supplementing, the front window slider. Seems to work but will probably scratch the glass. I was going to also put one in the back but it seems too tight.



Havm't tried glueing the rear glass mounting yet. Thinking I might try Loctite if I can get it, or a cheaper methacrylate if I can't.
 
I had a look at the other side. Although rusty and stiff, its better aligned, the glass is held in by the clips, not by large blobs of sealant, and you can get a socket on the end of the clip securing bolts.

Although driver and passenger side will be different, I wouldn't expect them to deliberately make the drivers side design significantly worse, so I think its had a poor "professional" installation or repair of a poor after market winder replacement.
 
I havn't gone beyond the above half baked improvisation on the broken one so far, but its working adequately.

The other one was a bit stiff so I took the winder off (easy), cleaned it with petrol and re-lubed it (using 3M EP grease on PTFE tape dental-floss stylee), and put it back on. Didn't make much difference. Silicone greasing and spraying the window sliders did free it off a bit though.
 
All rather moot since I might have killed the car.
 
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