PEAK Global lifetime & PEAK Extended life revealed

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My local Walgreen's and Rite-Aid both carry PGL at similar prices. I'd buy at Rite-Aid due to my points from purchaces and perscriptions.
 
I emailed Peak about their Extended Life product and this was the response I got:


"There was a point in time when Ford was using Zerex G05 (Specialty Gold) that they used silicate and nitrite. This is because it's considered a hybrid (HOAT) that can be used in diesel vehicles. So it makes sense that Ford wanted customers to their antifreeze when it came time to refill the vehicle's cooling system. But, as I stated earlier they have moved away from that with their Specialty Orange, which meets requirement WSS-M97B44-D and is silicate and nitrite free.

Please note the silicate and nitrite are inorganic acid inhibitors that you'd find in conventional green antifreeze. They are considered old technology and thus unnecessary for cooling system protection when using organic acid inhibitors. We don't use any inorganic inhibitors so that we can meet the requirements of European and Japanese vehicles that do not want certain inhibitors such as phosphate and silicate in their antifreeze.
We make the Peak Long Life without all of them so that it is suitable for use for all makes and models, since the main OAT inhibitor (2-EHA) is compatible for any cooling system. While Ford chose to use those inhibitors like silicate and nitrite, there is no evidence to support that they are absolutely necessary for proper performance of their cooling systems. While the Long Life will work fine in your Ford vehicles, there is a legitimate concern that Ford may question the warranty because the coolant doesn't appear gold in color. This is because they are trained to believe that if you don't use their coolant that all cooling system issues revert back to the non-Ford coolant that was in use, when in reality there are other issues with the system."
 
^^^^I would respectfully disagree with the Peak/Old World response regarding Peak LL (called Extended Life in topic title) AF with 2eha based on what was not said.

It is true that Peak LL would be compatible with Asian AF's specs based on the fact that it contains no silicates and nitrites. It is also true that it would be compatible with Euro AF's based on the fact that it contains no phosphates. The Peak response combined those in one sentence without specifically saying which requirement is met for each spec, be it Asian or Euro.

It is also true that for whatever reason(s) Ford specs G-05 for the 4.6L and 5.4L, But, Ford is now moving to an 2eha based Dextype OAT coolant for all it's models.

That out of the way, what was not said is that the 2eha in Peak Long Life and other Dex(based)Clone universals is a known plasticizer. That is, it is known to soften plastic like silicone which is frequently used in gasket, o-ring and hoses and therefore 'could' cause leaks. One can look at the (plastic) gaskets used on some GM engines as an example of this phenomenon. That said, if one 'knows' that the engines gaskets, o-rings and hoses are compatible (not affected by) the 2eha in the Dex based universals including Peak LL then it could work just as described/claimed by Peak. If however one is not sure and a 2eha Dex based coolant is not spec'd, then it is a gamble.

The other part to this topic is Peak's other universal all makes/models AF, Global Lifetime. Like Peak LL, it is also an extended life AF, but unlike LL it does NOT contain 2eha so gasket compatibilty concerns is not an issue. It also would be compatible with the Asian AF's which refuse to use 2eha Dex based coolants, likely because of gasket compatibility concerns.

For more information, below are links to some AF articles on the topic and some recent bitog threads that discuss the differences in AF's including Peak Global Lifetime and Peak Long Life.

http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/enrg/11284

http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/082010_08.pdf

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3151999#Post3151999

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3155123#Post3155123
 
I am currently(and have been) using both the PEAK Long Life and Global in our vehicles. And, I have always thought that...H'mmm, maybe I should just use GLOBAL in everything as, all our vehicles are Asian.

Though I haven't had a single issue with any of the gaskets in our vehicles that are using strictly PEAK Long Life, it sometimes has me concerned
frown.gif
even though the cooling system are well maintained regularly.

ATMOF, the only vehicles that I have ever had cooling system issues with(HG/IMG) were with vehicles that were known in the industry for having these issues anyway! Othewise, I've had great success and have been blessed
smile.gif


Years ago, I only used Prestone and Havoline A/F in everything and the only vehicle(s) that I had cooling system issues with were(again) known in the industry for having issues.
 
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Originally Posted By: nobb
I emailed Peak about their Extended Life product and this was the response I got:


"There was a point in time when Ford was using Zerex G05 (Specialty Gold) that they used silicate and nitrite. This is because it's considered a hybrid (HOAT) that can be used in diesel vehicles. So it makes sense that Ford wanted customers to their antifreeze when it came time to refill the vehicle's cooling system. But, as I stated earlier they have moved away from that with their Specialty Orange, which meets requirement WSS-M97B44-D and is silicate and nitrite free.

Please note the silicate and nitrite are inorganic acid inhibitors that you'd find in conventional green antifreeze. They are considered old technology and thus unnecessary for cooling system protection when using organic acid inhibitors. We don't use any inorganic inhibitors so that we can meet the requirements of European and Japanese vehicles that do not want certain inhibitors such as phosphate and silicate in their antifreeze.
We make the Peak Long Life without all of them so that it is suitable for use for all makes and models, since the main OAT inhibitor (2-EHA) is compatible for any cooling system. While Ford chose to use those inhibitors like silicate and nitrite, there is no evidence to support that they are absolutely necessary for proper performance of their cooling systems. While the Long Life will work fine in your Ford vehicles, there is a legitimate concern that Ford may question the warranty because the coolant doesn't appear gold in color. This is because they are trained to believe that if you don't use their coolant that all cooling system issues revert back to the non-Ford coolant that was in use, when in reality there are other issues with the system."


I replied to their response (above) questioning their use of 2-EHA and here was another response from them. Thoughts? It seemed like the response was knowledgeable, but diverted on my specific questioning of the presence of 2-EHA.

"There is nothing about a carboxylate that would cause rubber and silicone seals to deteriorate. Now, there could be a concern if you are a using a silicate based antifreeze for a longer period of time, then switching to a straight organic acid formulated antifreeze later on. This is because silicate acts as a layering inhibitor and coats the inside of the cooling system. That is how it works in blocking corrosion on cooling system metals. What it could also do is hide small leaks in the cooling system.
After it is flushed out and replaced by an OAT coolant, the inhibitors act a soap and wash the silicate away.. thus exposing any small leaks that were covered up by silicate over time. So the misconception is that the OAT coolant caused the leak when in fact it just exposed the fact that it was there before.

Otherwise our antifreeze, as well as any other reputable antifreeze manufacturer's product passes ASTM D-3306 testing. This testing includes cooling system metal compatibility.

I'm not sure why ford says that their new 2-EHA formula is not backward compatible with the HOAT other than to try to keep the customer using what was installed from the factory for the remainder of the life of the vehicle.

Please be aware as well that the root of the Dexcool issue in GM vehicle in the 90's was a flaw in the design of the cooling system, notably in the Blazer and S-10 models when they went to a newer body style that had rounded front fenders and hood as opposed to the boxed-shaped design in the early 90's. They made the radiator with a fill neck on a 45 degree angle as opposed to a 90 degree angle to accommodate this change. The design of the cap on the new radiator was flawed in that it did not purge the air and excess antifreeze correctly and drew an unnecessary amount of air into the system, causing the fluid to gel and eventually the cooling system metals to corrode. The fix to this issue wasn't a redesign of the coolant formulation, it was a changed radiator cap design.
"
 
I suppose you'll have to decide who to believe regarding 2eha, Peak/Old World's response or the previously linked SAE mag document and the Motor.com magazine article both of which note 2eha's effects on some gasket materials like plastic/silicone.

And their answer fails to address the GM products that used Dex with 2eha and never saw a silicate AF, yet had gasket failures. However what they said about the 45 degree fill angle is true, but that is a different subject (gelling) than gasket failure.

I'm not saying Peak LL might not work just fine and as described on the jug. It might very well work great and have no effect at all on gaskets, orings and hoses. It's about making an informed decision based on the information which is fairly comprehensive in this thread imo.

Whatever the case, I do give kudos to Peak/Old World for their responses and attempt to explain their view of Peak LL.

It is interesting to note though that Peak makes another Long Life/Extended Life OAT AF without 2eha, that being Global Lifetime.
 
As stated above, this subject always gets me a bit concerned! I do use PEAK LL without issues but, has me curious as to when/how long will it take the PEAK LL to destroy my gaskets when maintained properly. I keep my vehicles for a long time and no issues yet.
 
I personally will use only OEM from now on. I did do a drain n fill using the LL products, but I have drained that and refilled with the proper OEM solution. I would rather spend a little more on the right product rather than having doubts or taking a chance with something potentially inferior.

That being said, I posted the above comments from Old World Industries to try to bring light to their perspective on the issue. I know everyone here rags on Universal coolants and OATs, but I did attempt to research the subject quite a bit and the fact of the matter is...there literally is not a single case of proven cooling system damage or test data suggesting that these products have negative impacts.

Another way to think about it...aftermarket coolants are a multi-million (billion) dollar industry. Surely you would think the manufacturers of coolants claiming to be "Universal" and "All Makes/Models" would have done their own due diligence in testing their claims or else there would be lawsuits arising or mass failures occuring.

If I am wrong on any of these points, please feel free to correct me. I really would like to see some proven cases of direct universal OAT coolant damage (and not from improper maintenance). I really would like to see some real life data, not speculation, on the following matters:

1. gasket damage due to universal OATs
2. water pump cavitation or seal damage due to universal OATs
3. scaling or deposits due to universal OATs
 
Old thread, but this is a top google hit for this topic.
I just looked at the data sheets on the Peak website and Peak LL lists 3% 2-eha, while Peak Global has the same ingredients EXCEPT that one, and mentions 2-EH free formulation.
I emailed Prestone last week and they replied that all of their long life products contain 2-EHA.
It's interesting that there are other theories (like air in the system) explaining gasket failure, but
if you believe that a plasticizer like 2-EHA could be to blame, Peak Global would seem to fit the bill.
Amsoil also told me their coolant is 2-EHA free (it's G-05 compatible)... it has the benefit of also
being non-toxic-based, but is fairly expensive and you probably have to order it from their website.
 
Originally Posted By: ITG
Old thread, but this is a top google hit for this topic.
I just looked at the data sheets on the Peak website and Peak LL lists 3% 2-eha, while Peak Global has the same ingredients EXCEPT that one, and mentions 2-EH free formulation.
I emailed Prestone last week and they replied that all of their long life products contain 2-EHA.
It's interesting that there are other theories (like air in the system) explaining gasket failure, but
if you believe that a plasticizer like 2-EHA could be to blame, Peak Global would seem to fit the bill.
Amsoil also told me their coolant is 2-EHA free (it's G-05 compatible)... it has the benefit of also
being non-toxic-based, but is fairly expensive and you probably have to order it from their website.


Firstly welcome to BITOG!
welcome2.gif


Regarding Peak and their gold jug, I switched an 05 Equinox to it after I had my headgasket and LIM replaced. Both known to have issues with dexcool due to the material of the gasket. I have had ZERO issues with my cooling system since the replacement and the exchange of coolant. I can attest it is some good stuff. Regardless of what you end up using, if it is different that what the vehicle had I would do a complete flush with distilled water prior to using anything else. Coolant can be finicky (sludge etc.) when it is mixed with others.
 
I use the heavy duty Peak Final Charge red ELC no nitrite coolant in all my water cooled engines. Over 2 million miles without a coolant related problem. Cast iron, aluminum, wet sleeved, whatever. 8 yr / 20,000 hr / 1 million mile service life, though my comfort level will not let me go that long. I can get 50/50 mix gallons for about $13 locally.

http://images.peakauto.com/Final Charge Red_Spec Sheet_hires.pdf
 
After contacting Peak/OldWorld awhile ago, if I couldn't find Peak Global Lifetime 'Concentrate' at my local Napa I would consider Peak Final Charge Global to be an alternative to PGL. However, premix in either is a no go for me, not paying for half water if I can help it. My local Napa has PGL concentrate Part #PEA 00407 currently for ~$16/gallon. Been using it in a Tacoma for awhile now, working fine.
 
I have an 04 GTO and a 13 malibu. Changing out the dexcool in both. You still using Peak Global, and is that was you recommend? I was going to use Peak Long Life, but I see that it has the 2-EHA that dexcool has.
 
Originally Posted by Bgallagher
Originally Posted by ITG
Old thread, but this is a top google hit for this topic.
I just looked at the data sheets on the Peak website and Peak LL lists 3% 2-eha, while Peak Global has the same ingredients EXCEPT that one, and mentions 2-EH free formulation.
I emailed Prestone last week and they replied that all of their long life products contain 2-EHA.
It's interesting that there are other theories (like air in the system) explaining gasket failure, but
if you believe that a plasticizer like 2-EHA could be to blame, Peak Global would seem to fit the bill.
Amsoil also told me their coolant is 2-EHA free (it's G-05 compatible)... it has the benefit of also
being non-toxic-based, but is fairly expensive and you probably have to order it from their website.


Firstly welcome to BITOG!
welcome2.gif


Regarding Peak and their gold jug, I switched an 05 Equinox to it after I had my headgasket and LIM replaced. Both known to have issues with dexcool due to the material of the gasket. I have had ZERO issues with my cooling system since the replacement and the exchange of coolant. I can attest it is some good stuff. Regardless of what you end up using, if it is different that what the vehicle had I would do a complete flush with distilled water prior to using anything else. Coolant can be finicky (sludge etc.) when it is mixed with others.


I have an 04 GTO and a 13 malibu. Changing out the dexcool in both. You still using Peak Global, and is that was you recommend? I was going to use Peak Long Life, but I see that it has the 2-EHA that dexcool has.
 
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Originally Posted by Sayjac
Originally Posted by peterdes
That's funny, I couldn't find "Global Extended Life" anywhere..

Maybe "Global Extended life" is replacing "Global Lifetime." and "Extended Life" is replacing "Long Life."

The 9.50 stuff at Wally has 2eh,(oh nooo) big deal. There is a $5.00 rebate that makes it 4.50 plus postage. My Altima says change every 2yrs-30k miles. IMO, this stuff will work fine, with a system flush, especially since I used Prestone AM/M EL last time, with no issues.

I finally saw some 50/50 Peak Global Lifetime at Kmart. Didn't price it because it is half distilled water. IMO, rip off.

But, trying to find Peak Global Lifetime concentrate is like playing Where's Waldo? Supposedly you can find it at NAPA. You can find the other (dex-clone) about anywhere.


Global conc. was in stock at my local NAPA and $14.50/gallon. Could get as many as I wanted.
 
2-Eha may be fine in most "recent" vehicles where both radiators in the cooling system ( engine and heater ) are the plastic / alu type l, modern gaskets are also more resilient.

However in an older cooling system that has old style gaskets and soldered radiators it's devastating.

I like what is sold in the US as Zerex G40, it uses Sebacic Acid as the OAT inhibitor, Silicates and Benzoate.

It's safe for soldered copper / brass radiators ( even high lead ) and i have heard of zero problems relating to gaskets or hoses.

Just my 2c
smile.gif
 
Quote
….Global conc. was in stock at my local NAPA and $14.50/gallon. Could get as many as I wanted.
Please take note of the date of the quoted post, 05/2009, which was when this resurrected yet again thread was started. While PGL can be found in concentrate form at Napa, in remains not the most easily found or readily available AF. Generally speaking, it can be found at select Napa stores. Some will order it, but some require buying a case of six if ordered.

If you can obtain it for $14.50/gal now, you are doing very well. The current Napa online pricing now shows PGL concentrate part #PEA 00407 listed at $19.99/gal. While it has increased in price, if one considers it is a concentrate as compared to premixes, pricing not unreasonable imo. As aside I've been running PGL in an older Tacoma specing Toy Red LL for ~5 years now in, still original radiator. I would have no fear of running it in any vehicle I own. Long service interval OAT AF, no 2eha.

PGL premix can be found in some other places, in fact my local grocery store Harris Teeter stocks it, ~$15/gal. Don't know if they still do, but Walgreens used to carry the premix too. PGL concentrate even at current Napa listed price, still the better value.
 
So I've read through this thread (and many others) and have also read the Global product documentation and I'm still unsure of what I've read. If I have a vehicle that requires FL22, is Global still a good choice? System will be flushed. There is no mention of FL22 on the bottle but I've read it possibly was in the past.
 
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Originally Posted by SilverRubicon
So I've read through this thread (and many others) and have also read the Global product documentation and I'm still unsure of what I've read. If I have a vehicle that requires FL22, is Global still a good choice? System will be flushed. There is no mention of FL22 on the bottle but I've read it possibly was in the past.



I believe that FL22 is a green P-HOAT (I'm not positive)….I would use PGL as a substitute even though it isn't phosphated...as long as you do a thorough flush beforehand....I've been running PGL in my 2008 Corolla for several years without issues and the OE Toyota pink was also a P-HOAT....
 
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