Harrison Ford - Landing Issue

[4WD]

I have flown Garuda Indonesia several times - the worst danger was starting a descent right when the daily fasting was over - food and drinks going everywhere ! (I felt for the flight attendants - but guess they knew it was coming)

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Astro14
But I don't see how you can mistake a taxiway for a runway....I just don't...
Not wanting to sound too,,, Astro 14 I will humbly input you are in the big league being a Naval Aviator and an airline pilot . That is to me quite an accomplishment of high merit.


Thank you for your kind words.

If you're suggesting that my perspective is biased, because I've spent my career flying high performance airplanes and didn't follow the path that Mr. Ford has followed in learning to fly, then perhaps you're right.

The appearance, the lighting, the size...taxiways from the air look like....taxiways...and I have never failed to distinguish them...but I have visually acquired the wrong airport and headed for it, only to realize that it didn't "look" right when I was over the numbers. There were mitigating factors: low light angle, multiple valleys with shadow, new place, no nav aids, no ATC.

But Mr. Ford had none of those factors...and he wasn't doing 400+ knots...and he failed to recognize where he was...and...this one is big:

HE FLEW OVER AN AIRLINER ON HIS WAY TO THE TAXIWAY.

Hello!

Giant clue: there's an airplane parked there. It's NOT A RUNWAY.

 

[Eddie]

I read that the same thing has happened several times at that airport, by other individuals, so maybe the runway is not marked as well as the airport spokesman said. The spokesman was speaking of course to protect the airports legal liabilities. Maybe time to retest the pilot before we through him under the bus? Ed

 

[LoneRanger]

Harrison Ford, helping General Aviation lead the NTSB accident rates...

 

[CT8]

"HE FLEW OVER AN AIRLINER ON HIS WAY TO THE TAXIWAY." The plane was waiting for him to land before taking off

See why it is safer that I don't learn to fly.

 

[TheLoneRanger]

Film of the incident was released today, and it shows the
airliner in motion as Mr Ford decends over it. He was apparently
distracted by it moving perpendicular to his flightpath, and
chose the wrong 'runway'. That particular intersection is
designated an FAA hot spot, meaning it's more prone to confusion
and possible accidents.

Hans Solo deserves some slack on this, at least until the
incident report comes out.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: TheLoneRanger
Film of the incident was released today, and it shows the
airliner in motion as Mr Ford decends over it. He was apparently
distracted by it moving perpendicular to his flightpath, and
chose the wrong 'runway'. That particular intersection is
designated an FAA hot spot, meaning it's more prone to confusion
and possible accidents.

Hans Solo deserves some slack on this, at least until the
incident report comes out.


Maybe. I dunno. You line up for final a ways out. Aircraft approaching or holding short of the active while people are on final is nothing unusual. I tend to agree with the earlier post that it is pretty well inexcusable to fail to differentiate between an active and a taxiway. The consequences of a mistake can be catastrophic.

Whether it's grounds for pulling his medical or ticket, I dunno - been a while since I looked at the FAR's. It sure ought to be looked at. I know one instance where a guy had his medical ( I, think ) pulled or suspended for further inquiry, and the tower would not give him a taxi clearance - told him to return to the ramp and come to the control tower for a discussion.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: TheLoneRanger

Hans Solo deserves some slack on this, at least until the
incident report comes out.


NO!!!
BURN HIM!!!!
HE'S A WITCH!!!!

er, wait...no,
HE'S A WARLOCK!!!!!

 

[Astro14]

The taxiway on which he landed doesn't look like a runway at all. It's very narrow and incorporated into the ramp.

The airliner was holding short of runway 20L. That is designated a hotspot. From the FAA: "A “hot spot” is a runway safety related problem area or intersection on an airport. Typically it is a complex or confusing taxiway/taxiway or taxiway/runway intersection. A confusing condition may be compounded by a miscommunication between a controller and a pilot, and may cause an aircraft separation standard to be compromised. The area may have a history of surface incidents or the potential for surface incidents."

https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safe...%20Brochure.pdf

While landing on a taxiway is a grey area for legality, it's not exactly illegal, and can be done, particularly at uncontrolled airports. However, at controlled airports, pilots are obligated to land where cleared, making this landing a clear violation. The action that will be taken against him by the FAA remains to be seen, but the FAA has vigorously prosecuted commercial pilots who have made the same mistake at controlled airports, even thought they were landing at night, in bad weather, which would help explain misidentification of airport features.

 

[Astro14]

 

[Win]

And, for the love of Han Solo, surely a man of his means had a localizer in that Super Cub, or whatever it was, even if not a full ILS set up.

If that was tuned on, that needle about to break off ought to have been a clue.

 

[Cujet]

While most of us like to think it won't happen to us, mental degradation is a fact of life. Air traffic controllers are required to retire at 56 years old. Care to guess why? ATC requires a very specific set of cognitive and physical skills, many of which diminish markedly with age.

Airline pilots also have retirement requirements, albeit a good bit more relaxed at age 65.

In the large cabin corporate jet world, we typically allow pilots 60 to 65 to fly right seat. We do notice that a good number of older pilots are much more prone to simple mistakes, often have hearing loss and sometimes have difficulty on the radio during periods of peak stress. And like it or not, the older guys are really slow in modern digital cockpits.

While every individual is different, we do know of 57 year old's who don't perform well anymore. Guys that were absolutely awesome when young. Really, it's sad to see and I'm not sure there is an answer other than to maintain good health.

I fly more than the average guy, and I've done as many as 700 landings in one year. Not once have I lined up on a taxiway. It's a habit to read the runway numbers!

 

[Mr Nice]

Maybe Ford end up like John Denver ?

 

[DeepFriar]

Originally Posted By: Win
And, for the love of Han Solo, surely a man of his means had a localizer in that Super Cub, or whatever it was, even if not a full ILS set up.

If that was tuned on, that needle about to break off ought to have been a clue.



I'd bet money his Husky is lightly equipped and he flies it to "clear the cobwebs" (!). He also flies a Sovereign in and out of there. But, given who he is and the fact that aircraft is not single pilot rated, his insurance providers and studios probably require a senior (co)pilot be with him. He has an Otter and Jet Ranger as well among others. The kind of guy that his soul will be damaged if he has to stop flying.

 

[andrewg]

Time for him to give up flying. Other lives are at stake, regardless of his selfish desire to keep piloting

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Time for him to give up flying. Other lives are at stake, regardless of his selfish desire to keep piloting


Or, perhaps, stick to flying his Husky at uncontrolled, rural airports - airports without complex ATC and high traffic. Where you can land on grass, or the taxiway, whatever...

Santa Anna (John Wayne) is an FAA-designated "special qualification" airport. We (airline pilots) had to have special training before we could fly in there. SFO is another special qual airport.

They're not a good choice for amateurs - and, despite his collection of airplanes, Mr. Ford is an amateur.

I learned to drive on a Ford 8N tractor at about 12. I could handle the tractor in the field and on the dirt road to the farm.

But despite being a good driver, and being able to handle the old Ford well, I wasn't ready for rush hour traffic in New York City...that's a whole different kind of driving...and so it is with airplanes and complex situations...

 

[Win]

The airman is a wealthy A+ list celebrity and this is California. We can say that it was a self inflicted colossal screwup that had a lucky outcome, but he can say it was a one off, no harm no foul, incident - no damage, no evasive action, not even a disruption in traffic on the ground or in the air.

Wouldn't surprise me if it goes quietly away, maybe as part of that, given his age, he agrees to some voluntary restrictions on where he flies.

 

[fdcg27]

People make mistakes all of the time which can have serious consequences but usually don't.
There are examples of professional crews, with two pilots in the cockpit, losing situational awareness and flying into mountainsides, landing long in dodgy weather when they really should have gone around and running off the ends of runways, inadvertently landing on taxiways, lining up with a runway of similar heading to the intended arrival one and landing at the wrong airport, attempting take-offs from the wrong runway, holding full back stick in a stalled aircraft because they were unaware that they no longer had envelope protection as well as overflying their destination airport by a hundred miles or so.
Bear in mind that these are professional crews who always have the assistance of at least one other mind and set of eyes.
They are subject to a careful selection process, intensive initial and recurrent training as well as the occasional trip with a management pilot to monitor compliance with operating procedures.
After all of this, human errors still happen with sometimes serious outcomes.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I agree that Harrison Ford should probably limit his solo flying to rural GA airports at this stage of his life, we shouldn't be overly harsh in judging him nor should we make fun of him as some in this thread have.

 

[Astro14]

The professional flight crews to whom you are referring all ended up either dead or prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Since Mr. Ford is still with us, should he receive the latter?

 

[CT8]

Pro crews are above and beyond the private pilots. Skill level and training.No comparison. Even I make mistakes