Lubricants Containing Titanium Dioxide

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Originally Posted By: 69GTX
That stuff is in our foods, often in vitamins and mineral supplements, ibuprofen, etc.


OK..... but the subject matter is TiO2 in lubricants such as the Castrol products and others.
 
I got to page 5 and the A.D.D. kicked in and boredom ensued. Four-ball tribometer and ball-on-disk tribometer Nooo. How can I believe this. Amsoil and Rat 540 test methods used. Save me I can't take it any more.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
That stuff is in our foods, often in vitamins and mineral supplements, ibuprofen, etc.


OK..... but the subject matter is TiO2 in lubricants such as the Castrol products and others.


Who is putting TiO2 in their oil then? Castrol say "Soluble titanium polymers..." (source).
 
Molakule, thanks for raising the bar around here or at least trying to keep it from dropping too low. I appreciate this and your other thread/questions on viscosity units and measurement.
 
I haven't been able to tear into the reference list yet, but my big interest in Ti was it's temperature of activation,and it says in the paper that it is insensitive to temperature.
Like the idea of that since the beloved zddp takes some heat to activate and is not any good after 130 (?) degrees C.

Whoda thunk that particle that makes your candy milky white lookin makes your engine happy? Thank you MolaKule.
 
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
I haven't been able to tear into the reference list yet, but my big interest in Ti was it's temperature of activation,and it says in the paper that it is insensitive to temperature.
Like the idea of that since the beloved zddp takes some heat to activate and is not any good after 130 (?) degrees C.

Whoda thunk that particle that makes your candy milky white lookin makes your engine happy? Thank you MolaKule.


These are nanoparticles that don't react in any way. They modify the friction properties and don't have an "activation temperature" like an organometallic compound such as ZDDP. It's two completely different things.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
That stuff is in our foods, often in vitamins and mineral supplements, ibuprofen, etc.


OK..... but the subject matter is TiO2 in lubricants such as the Castrol products and others.


Who is putting TiO2 in their oil then? Castrol say "Soluble titanium polymers..." (source).


Some of you people are still thinking in terms of pure metallic powders simply being dropped in the oil and then mixed with a paddle.

That is not how it is done in lubricant chemistry.

Whether it be Zinc, Molybdenum, TiO2, or Tungsten, any metallic or organo-metallic additive has to be processed so that it is 1) soluble in the lubricant, 2) that it disperses.
 
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Originally Posted By: Dyusik


Like the idea of that since the beloved zddp takes some heat to activate and is not any good after 130 (?) degrees C.

Whoda thunk that particle that makes your candy milky white lookin makes your engine happy? Thank you MolaKule.


Just to add to kschachn's excellent response,

See my White Paper here on ZDDP film formation:

ZDDP Film Formation


ZDDP films can form at much lower temperatures than previously assumed.
 
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I am at work as I type this, we manufacture Ti02 using the Chlorine Process down here in SW Louisiana. This article is very interesting, thanks!
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Some of you people are still thinking in terms of pure metallic powders simply being dropped in the oil and then mixed with a paddle.

That is not how it is done in lubricant chemistry.

What do you use then, those things to mix cake batters, or just a big food processor?
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Some of you people are still thinking in terms of pure metallic powders simply being dropped in the oil and then mixed with a paddle.

That is not how it is done in lubricant chemistry.

What do you use then, those things to mix cake batters, or just a big food processor?
wink.gif




A Veggematic does well.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: weasley


Who is putting TiO2 in their oil then? Castrol say "Soluble titanium polymers..." (source).


Some of you people are still thinking in terms of pure metallic powders simply being dropped in the oil and then mixed with a paddle.

That is not how it is done in lubricant chemistry.

Whether it be Zinc, Molybdenum, TiO2, or Tungsten, any metallic or organo-metallic additive has to be processed so that it is 1) soluble in the lubricant, 2) that it disperses.





But thepaper clearly states they're using solid nano-particles. Also as far as the 4 ball-wear test etc goes, mentioned in a previous post: the aim for this paper seemed to be cutting oils and gear lubrication where those tests become valid.
 
Maybe Jetronic and others could re-read the complete paper:
smile.gif


Quote:
A new technology for improving the poor oil solubility of TiO2 nanoparticles in base oil is thus suggested. Nanoparticles added in oil possessing excellent dispersing stability were obtained under the new technology.


TiO2 nano-articles (100 nm in size) were processed using a special oleic-acid process to improve dispersibility. TiO2 partcles weren't just dumped into the oil. They were specially processed and then added to the base oil.


Quote:
Wear tests were carried out with a four-ball tribometer. At the end of each test, the mean wear scar diameter (WSD) on the three down balls was measured using a digital reading optical microscope with an accuracy of 0.01 mm. The steel balls used in the tribological test had a diameter of 12.7 mm made of Rul2 bearing steel with an HRC of 59–61 hardness.


The above is a conventional laboratory wear test to determine how the newly processed TiO2 nano-articles (100 nm in size) protected steel specimens in an oil bath under load.


Quote:
The friction coefficient of the oil was measured both with a model based on the principle of reciprocating friction on a ball-on-disk tribometer and with a four-ball tribometer according to ASTM D5183-95. The tribological conditions of model reciprocating friction were: a frequency of 25 Hz, a stroke length of 1 mm, a temperature of 75C, an applied load of 100 N, a duration of the test of 30 min.

The friction test was conducted in a reciprocating “ball-on-disk” mode, through the oscillation of a Rul2 steel ball (12.7 mm) over a Rul2 steel disk (Φ25 ˆ 8 mm) in the oil samples being tested. The arithmetic average surface roughness (Ra) of the disk was about 0.016 µm with an oscillation of 1 mm of the ball on disk.


The above is a conventional laboratory friction test to determine the friction coefficient of steel specimens in an oil bath under load.


Quote:
It should be helpful for the TiO2 nanoparticles used as additives in engine oil, gear oil, and other industrial lubricants.


So the modified TiO2 elixr is NOT for gear oils alone.



There are other processes for making organo-metallic anti-wear and friction modification compounds without nano-particle powders.

For example:

There are processes for preparing the organo-metal compounds which involves converting an alkali metal dihydrate of a Group VI metal; e.g., sodium metal dihydrate, to the corresponding metal acid hydrate of the Group VI metal. The metal acid hydrate is then reacted with an alkyl amine to form the organo-metal compound.

This can be done with Molybdenum, Titanium, Tungsten, Antimony, or just about any other metal.
 
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My point was that you imply that Castrol use TiO2 in their oils (presumably you refer to the EDGE oils with Titamium FST). My riposte was that no, they don't.

When people ask me about whether there is solid Ti or other metals in oils I first remind (or inform) them that oils have had zinc, calcium, magnesium etc in them for decades which nobody questions. I then also remind them that their blood has iron in it. My point is that just because "Xx" element is in an oil, doesn't mean it is there in its elemental form (which is good, given the amount of hydrogen that is in oil!).
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
My point was that you imply that Castrol use TiO2 in their oils (presumably you refer to the EDGE oils with Titamium FST). My riposte was that no, they don't...



And my posts #4337568 and #4339853 were to show that Castrol would use some type of Ti compound, because if you look at various Castrol and related engine oils they do use some type of Ti compound.


Quote:
For example:

There are processes for preparing the organo-metal compounds which involves converting an alkali metal dihydrate of a Group VI metal; e.g., sodium metal dihydrate, to the corresponding metal acid hydrate of the Group VI metal. The metal acid hydrate is then reacted with an alkyl amine to form the organo-metal compound.

This can be done with Molybdenum, Titanium, Tungsten, Antimony, or just about any other metal.



The point is from both my previous posts and from the paper, you don't simply add a metallic powder to engine oil, rather you add a highly, chemically processed organo-metallic compound that provides better AW or FM or anti-oxidant protection than do pure powders that don't disperse well.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Maybe Jetronic and others could re-read the complete paper:
smile.gif


Quote:
A new technology for improving the poor oil solubility of TiO2 nanoparticles in base oil is thus suggested. Nanoparticles added in oil possessing excellent dispersing stability were obtained under the new technology.


TiO2 nano-articles (100 nm in size) were processed using a special oleic-acid process to improve dispersibility. TiO2 partcles weren't just dumped into the oil. They were specially processed and then added to the base oil.


Quote:
Wear tests were carried out with a four-ball tribometer. At the end of each test, the mean wear scar diameter (WSD) on the three down balls was measured using a digital reading optical microscope with an accuracy of 0.01 mm. The steel balls used in the tribological test had a diameter of 12.7 mm made of Rul2 bearing steel with an HRC of 59–61 hardness.


The above is a conventional laboratory wear test to determine how the newly processed TiO2 nano-articles (100 nm in size) protected steel specimens in an oil bath under load.


Quote:
The friction coefficient of the oil was measured both with a model based on the principle of reciprocating friction on a ball-on-disk tribometer and with a four-ball tribometer according to ASTM D5183-95. The tribological conditions of model reciprocating friction were: a frequency of 25 Hz, a stroke length of 1 mm, a temperature of 75C, an applied load of 100 N, a duration of the test of 30 min.

The friction test was conducted in a reciprocating “ball-on-disk” mode, through the oscillation of a Rul2 steel ball (12.7 mm) over a Rul2 steel disk (Φ25 ˆ 8 mm) in the oil samples being tested. The arithmetic average surface roughness (Ra) of the disk was about 0.016 µm with an oscillation of 1 mm of the ball on disk.


The above is a conventional laboratory friction test to determine the friction coefficient of steel specimens in an oil bath under load.


Quote:
It should be helpful for the TiO2 nanoparticles used as additives in engine oil, gear oil, and other industrial lubricants.


So the modified TiO2 elixr is NOT for gear oils alone.



There are other processes for making organo-metallic anti-wear and friction modification compounds without nano-particle powders.

For example:

There are processes for preparing the organo-metal compounds which involves converting an alkali metal dihydrate of a Group VI metal; e.g., sodium metal dihydrate, to the corresponding metal acid hydrate of the Group VI metal. The metal acid hydrate is then reacted with an alkyl amine to form the organo-metal compound.

This can be done with Molybdenum, Titanium, Tungsten, Antimony, or just about any other metal.

Thanks for the explanation.
Question for you: Titanium oxide is used to coat drill bits because it has a hardness far greater than tool steel. Do these Titanium oxide nanoparticles then act much like MSO2 in greases, to reduce shock-wear?
 
Originally Posted By: DrRoughneck
Titanium oxide is used to coat drill bits because it has a hardness far greater than tool steel. Do these Titanium oxide nanoparticles then act much like MSO2 in greases, to reduce shock-wear?


Drill bits are coated with titanium nitride. TiO2 is relatively soft compared to the nitride.
 
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