Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Tom777
No definate milage on when the carbon deposite will cause issue just like the timming chain tensioner failure but it will happen. Me and majority of other gen 1&2 TSI owners with carbon deposite issue mostly stuck in traffic driving at low speed 5 days a week and run short trip to store during weekend. The road condition do not allow us to drive like the way you do like you mention previously during rush hour which is 90% of the time we use the vehicle for. If you believe it is not an issue that is fine. But I feel the obligation to let others know that this is an issue that exist. Milage and years of use till causing misfire will very just like this case. But it will happen eventually. VW did not list carbon cleaning as a maintenance item. Instead this is considered as a repair item back in 2014 when I talk to the vw dealer. And at this point I dont really know why we are talking so much about this but not the timming chain tensioner which cause complete engine failure. And I know you may say hey my CC went 90k with no issue, that is fine too. Since I already know there are quite alot incidences on timing chain tensioner issue for 09-13 model year TSI engine I feel no benifit to withold the information I already know on these engines from Gen 1&2 TSI owner I come across.
If you are happy with your 11 Tiguan good for you and good luck. Maybe keep driving it for years to come without doing carbon cleaning or timing chain tensioner update VW will buy the car from you to present a case to defend themself on the class action in court which filed by hundreds if not thousands of consumers that stranded of an engine that cost a fortune to repair all because it was a design flaw.
First of all, I would say I am much more familiar with these issues then you. So I feel obligated (to use your lingo) to tell you that VW does not build cars or engine for some guy in Houston, TX. They sell it there, but their priority is guy in Frankfurt and Munich, not Houston. So they design engines with that in mind, not Houston traffic, drive thru and 24oz cup holders.
So if you spend 90% of your time in traffic, why VW? Why not Toyota Prius? Why not RAV4 hybrid? You want CUV with autobahn characteristics to spend 90% of time in traffic? Sorry mate, but it is not VW's fault.
I buy cars that fit my life style. I am skiing twice a week (200mls round trip), I will next month go to Chicago. Wife has conference, then me few days after, pack kid in the car, Yakima on the roof, and fire up BMW oil burner. Probably up to 3000 mls. In June, Colo. Springs-Vgeas-San Diego and back. Tiguan? Every time we go to Denver or some other CO destinations together where we do not need so much trunk space, we hit it with Tiguan, and trust me, sees more redline then 2k rpms. I change oil every 5k, I use ONLY oils that meet with VW 502.00 also MB 229.5 and do not use that dealership POS Cstrol 5W40 that VW uses. Same thing was with CC. Was driving that car skiing since it was more useful to fit skis, had winter tires, and just blast on CO local roads with it, at 96K was running equally strong as at 24K when I got it, not using drop of oil, which was ALSO one of the complaints about TSI engines (Tiguan does not use drop of oil too).
Issues you are mentioning are so rare in Europe, precisely because of driving patterns, oil in use etc. So drive it like it was meant to be driven.
So maybe I develop problem with Tiguan, maybe not, but do not assume just because you had a problem or some other people on forums (people come to forums to complain not to say: oh I am opening thread to share how reliable my car is) does not mean everyone else has that issue. Every DI engine has issues with CBU, it is question how much and what you do to mitigate that issue.
Well, looks like your last sentence "Every DI engine has issues with CBU" confirms that TSI will also suffer CBU issues. We are just not in agreement on when will it cause engine problem. Thank you for acknowledging the CBU issue exist. In addition, VW also acknowledge this issue not through an official statement but getting port injection back on Gen 3 TSI in Europe. Sooner or later it will come to US, hopefully.I applause VW continues to make improvements with their engines. Ford is doing the same thing on their second gen EB to avoid CBU issue.
Now was it VW's fault on CBU issues? Yes, to some degree. Car manufacturer has the responsibility to communicate to VW consumer on how to properly maintain the vehicle. There are many ways to do it, the most common one is through owner's manual.
Did the owner's manual emphasized to use low NOACK oil other wise you will have CBU issue later? NO.
Did the owner's manual emphasized to drive aggressively otherwise you will have CBU issue later? NO.
Did the "2011 factory maintenance schedule for USA" document mention to change the oil at 5k not at 10k? NO.
The manual simply state to use VW502.00 5W30/40 oil on TSI and a big "Recommend Castrol" on the engine oil cap. The "POS Castrol 5W40 that VW uses" according to your previous post actually meets this requirement. The spec that was given in the manual has many different oils that meet the requirement but quality will still vary. A good example would be you said you use only "VW 502 and MB 229.5" which means you know there are oil that meets the spec but does a lousy job. For an average VW consumer, most of us rely on what the manual tell us. To use only "VW502 AND MB 229.5 AND OIL Change at 5k" was not readily available to us without research.
I bought the Tiguan because I like the exterior, interior and the ride is comfortable. Your logic on don't buy an "autobahn characteristics" car if you use it for commute doesn't make sense to me. It is basically equals to "don't buy a SUV for daily commute because it is meant to be driven on rough terrain" or "don't buy a pick up for daily commute because it is meant to be for towing and hauling stuffs". Everyone has their own opinion so that's fine.
While CBU is an issue that exist, Gen 1 & 2 TSI tensionor issue is something much more FATAL than the CBU. There is already a class action against VW/Audi on this timing chain tensioner fail issue which will cause catastrophic engine failure. So no, recent year VW engines (Gen 1 & 2 TSI) is not reliable, engine will eventually fail due to original tensioner's design flaw. I sincerely hope the future generations of TSI gets better and better because despite all these engine issues I still love the way Tiguan looks and drive.
Originally Posted By: Tom777
No definate milage on when the carbon deposite will cause issue just like the timming chain tensioner failure but it will happen. Me and majority of other gen 1&2 TSI owners with carbon deposite issue mostly stuck in traffic driving at low speed 5 days a week and run short trip to store during weekend. The road condition do not allow us to drive like the way you do like you mention previously during rush hour which is 90% of the time we use the vehicle for. If you believe it is not an issue that is fine. But I feel the obligation to let others know that this is an issue that exist. Milage and years of use till causing misfire will very just like this case. But it will happen eventually. VW did not list carbon cleaning as a maintenance item. Instead this is considered as a repair item back in 2014 when I talk to the vw dealer. And at this point I dont really know why we are talking so much about this but not the timming chain tensioner which cause complete engine failure. And I know you may say hey my CC went 90k with no issue, that is fine too. Since I already know there are quite alot incidences on timing chain tensioner issue for 09-13 model year TSI engine I feel no benifit to withold the information I already know on these engines from Gen 1&2 TSI owner I come across.
If you are happy with your 11 Tiguan good for you and good luck. Maybe keep driving it for years to come without doing carbon cleaning or timing chain tensioner update VW will buy the car from you to present a case to defend themself on the class action in court which filed by hundreds if not thousands of consumers that stranded of an engine that cost a fortune to repair all because it was a design flaw.
First of all, I would say I am much more familiar with these issues then you. So I feel obligated (to use your lingo) to tell you that VW does not build cars or engine for some guy in Houston, TX. They sell it there, but their priority is guy in Frankfurt and Munich, not Houston. So they design engines with that in mind, not Houston traffic, drive thru and 24oz cup holders.
So if you spend 90% of your time in traffic, why VW? Why not Toyota Prius? Why not RAV4 hybrid? You want CUV with autobahn characteristics to spend 90% of time in traffic? Sorry mate, but it is not VW's fault.
I buy cars that fit my life style. I am skiing twice a week (200mls round trip), I will next month go to Chicago. Wife has conference, then me few days after, pack kid in the car, Yakima on the roof, and fire up BMW oil burner. Probably up to 3000 mls. In June, Colo. Springs-Vgeas-San Diego and back. Tiguan? Every time we go to Denver or some other CO destinations together where we do not need so much trunk space, we hit it with Tiguan, and trust me, sees more redline then 2k rpms. I change oil every 5k, I use ONLY oils that meet with VW 502.00 also MB 229.5 and do not use that dealership POS Cstrol 5W40 that VW uses. Same thing was with CC. Was driving that car skiing since it was more useful to fit skis, had winter tires, and just blast on CO local roads with it, at 96K was running equally strong as at 24K when I got it, not using drop of oil, which was ALSO one of the complaints about TSI engines (Tiguan does not use drop of oil too).
Issues you are mentioning are so rare in Europe, precisely because of driving patterns, oil in use etc. So drive it like it was meant to be driven.
So maybe I develop problem with Tiguan, maybe not, but do not assume just because you had a problem or some other people on forums (people come to forums to complain not to say: oh I am opening thread to share how reliable my car is) does not mean everyone else has that issue. Every DI engine has issues with CBU, it is question how much and what you do to mitigate that issue.
Well, looks like your last sentence "Every DI engine has issues with CBU" confirms that TSI will also suffer CBU issues. We are just not in agreement on when will it cause engine problem. Thank you for acknowledging the CBU issue exist. In addition, VW also acknowledge this issue not through an official statement but getting port injection back on Gen 3 TSI in Europe. Sooner or later it will come to US, hopefully.I applause VW continues to make improvements with their engines. Ford is doing the same thing on their second gen EB to avoid CBU issue.
Now was it VW's fault on CBU issues? Yes, to some degree. Car manufacturer has the responsibility to communicate to VW consumer on how to properly maintain the vehicle. There are many ways to do it, the most common one is through owner's manual.
Did the owner's manual emphasized to use low NOACK oil other wise you will have CBU issue later? NO.
Did the owner's manual emphasized to drive aggressively otherwise you will have CBU issue later? NO.
Did the "2011 factory maintenance schedule for USA" document mention to change the oil at 5k not at 10k? NO.
The manual simply state to use VW502.00 5W30/40 oil on TSI and a big "Recommend Castrol" on the engine oil cap. The "POS Castrol 5W40 that VW uses" according to your previous post actually meets this requirement. The spec that was given in the manual has many different oils that meet the requirement but quality will still vary. A good example would be you said you use only "VW 502 and MB 229.5" which means you know there are oil that meets the spec but does a lousy job. For an average VW consumer, most of us rely on what the manual tell us. To use only "VW502 AND MB 229.5 AND OIL Change at 5k" was not readily available to us without research.
I bought the Tiguan because I like the exterior, interior and the ride is comfortable. Your logic on don't buy an "autobahn characteristics" car if you use it for commute doesn't make sense to me. It is basically equals to "don't buy a SUV for daily commute because it is meant to be driven on rough terrain" or "don't buy a pick up for daily commute because it is meant to be for towing and hauling stuffs". Everyone has their own opinion so that's fine.
While CBU is an issue that exist, Gen 1 & 2 TSI tensionor issue is something much more FATAL than the CBU. There is already a class action against VW/Audi on this timing chain tensioner fail issue which will cause catastrophic engine failure. So no, recent year VW engines (Gen 1 & 2 TSI) is not reliable, engine will eventually fail due to original tensioner's design flaw. I sincerely hope the future generations of TSI gets better and better because despite all these engine issues I still love the way Tiguan looks and drive.
