Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
PAO wins again. GTL is good, but can't hang. I'll stick with Castrol.
But in Cooper you have GTL?
PAO wins again. GTL is good, but can't hang. I'll stick with Castrol.
But in Cooper you have GTL?
M1 0w40 FS; 4,800 miles; '12 VW Tiguan 2.0t
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We are aware of these numbers. What I do not like about M1 is this ridiculous amount of sulfated ash.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
That is a TBN number, which is also very high.
Last version of M1, VISOM base, had pretty poor TBN retention.Maybe that is why they increased it.
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
That is a TBN number, which is also very high.
Last version of M1, VISOM base, had pretty poor TBN retention.Maybe that is why they increased it.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Not necessarily, Amsoil 5W30 that is approved for VW504.00/507.00 has very low SA levels but TBN at 8.8.
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Not necessarily, Amsoil 5W30 that is approved for VW504.00/507.00 has very low SA levels but TBN at 8.8.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Not necessarily, Amsoil 5W30 that is approved for VW504.00/507.00 has very low SA levels but TBN at 8.8.
What is its SA level?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Not necessarily, Amsoil 5W30 that is approved for VW504.00/507.00 has very low SA levels but TBN at 8.8.
What is its SA level?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Not necessarily, Amsoil 5W30 that is approved for VW504.00/507.00 has very low SA levels but TBN at 8.8.
What is its SA level?
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Is that a reflection of the total additives ... ?
Yes, the more additives, the higher the SA level, more or less.
Not necessarily, Amsoil 5W30 that is approved for VW504.00/507.00 has very low SA levels but TBN at 8.8.
What is its SA level?
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
Quote:
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Quote:
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
That is first time I hear that! As far as I know, that spec. is particularly hard on SA, since 507.00 main goal is to limit damage on DPF.
Quote:
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
That is first time I hear that! As far as I know, that spec. is particularly hard on SA, since 507.00 main goal is to limit damage on DPF.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Quote:
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
That is first time I hear that! As far as I know, that spec. is particularly hard on SA, since 507.00 main goal is to limit damage on DPF.
Most oils that carry 504/507 approval also carry ACEA C3 approval, and ACEA C3 does have a 0.8% SA limit. However, this amsoil oil only claims 504/507 approval; for everything else it is just "recommended".
You should ask amsoil what its SA level is.
Still, tbn of 8.8 is significantly lower than 11.8, and so it's to be expected that the SA level of this amsoil oil will be much lower, too. That was kind of my original point.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Quote:
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
That is first time I hear that! As far as I know, that spec. is particularly hard on SA, since 507.00 main goal is to limit damage on DPF.
Most oils that carry 504/507 approval also carry ACEA C3 approval, and ACEA C3 does have a 0.8% SA limit. However, this amsoil oil only claims 504/507 approval; for everything else it is just "recommended".
You should ask amsoil what its SA level is.
Still, tbn of 8.8 is significantly lower than 11.8, and so it's to be expected that the SA level of this amsoil oil will be much lower, too. That was kind of my original point.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Quote:
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
That is first time I hear that! As far as I know, that spec. is particularly hard on SA, since 507.00 main goal is to limit damage on DPF.
Most oils that carry 504/507 approval also carry ACEA C3 approval, and ACEA C3 does have a 0.8% SA limit. However, this amsoil oil only claims 504/507 approval; for everything else it is just "recommended".
You should ask amsoil what its SA level is.
Still, tbn of 8.8 is significantly lower than 11.8, and so it's to be expected that the SA level of this amsoil oil will be much lower, too. That was kind of my original point.
It is lower, but much higher then any other VW504.00/507.00 I have seen. Most are in 6-7 range.
And I have yet to see 504.00/507.00 that does not carry also C3 and sometimes also together C2 (like in case of M1 5W30 ESP).
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Quote:
No idea. It is approved by VW for 504.00/507.00 so SA level cannot be above 0.8%.
According to my sources, 504.00/507.00 alone has an SA max level of 1.5%.
That is first time I hear that! As far as I know, that spec. is particularly hard on SA, since 507.00 main goal is to limit damage on DPF.
Most oils that carry 504/507 approval also carry ACEA C3 approval, and ACEA C3 does have a 0.8% SA limit. However, this amsoil oil only claims 504/507 approval; for everything else it is just "recommended".
You should ask amsoil what its SA level is.
Still, tbn of 8.8 is significantly lower than 11.8, and so it's to be expected that the SA level of this amsoil oil will be much lower, too. That was kind of my original point.
It is lower, but much higher then any other VW504.00/507.00 I have seen. Most are in 6-7 range.
And I have yet to see 504.00/507.00 that does not carry also C3 and sometimes also together C2 (like in case of M1 5W30 ESP).
Originally Posted By: edyvw
And I have yet to see 504.00/507.00 that does not carry also C3 and sometimes also together C2 (like in case of M1 5W30 ESP).
Does that Amsoil officially carry C3?
And I have yet to see 504.00/507.00 that does not carry also C3 and sometimes also together C2 (like in case of M1 5W30 ESP).
Does that Amsoil officially carry C3?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
And I have yet to see 504.00/507.00 that does not carry also C3 and sometimes also together C2 (like in case of M1 5W30 ESP).
Does that Amsoil officially carry C3?
Not officially, my point was not about C3 in original post, but SA level of VW 504.00/507.00.
Amsoil is officially approved for that spec. When I mentioned C3, i was referring to any other oil approved by VW and that has officially C3. Or to put it this way: I yet to see oil that has VW 504.00/507.00 and ACEA A3/B3 B4.
Here is Motul's explanation of VW 504.00/507.00
This Motul also carries more TBN then M1 or Castrol, at 7.2, still lower then Amsoil.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
And I have yet to see 504.00/507.00 that does not carry also C3 and sometimes also together C2 (like in case of M1 5W30 ESP).
Does that Amsoil officially carry C3?
Not officially, my point was not about C3 in original post, but SA level of VW 504.00/507.00.
Amsoil is officially approved for that spec. When I mentioned C3, i was referring to any other oil approved by VW and that has officially C3. Or to put it this way: I yet to see oil that has VW 504.00/507.00 and ACEA A3/B3 B4.
Here is Motul's explanation of VW 504.00/507.00
This Motul also carries more TBN then M1 or Castrol, at 7.2, still lower then Amsoil.
Last edited:
I still have my doubts that this amsoil has SA under 0.8%.
504/507 alone does not require it.
504/507 alone does not require it.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I still have my doubts that this amsoil has SA under 0.8%.
504/507 alone does not require it.
I have to dig in more, I am sure I read somewhere VW504.00/507.00 is <0.8. I think it was lubrizol, but not sure.
I still have my doubts that this amsoil has SA under 0.8%.
504/507 alone does not require it.
I have to dig in more, I am sure I read somewhere VW504.00/507.00 is <0.8. I think it was lubrizol, but not sure.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
PAO wins again. GTL is good, but can't hang. I'll stick with Castrol.
But in Cooper you have GTL?
You're right. I may switch to EDGE 5W-30 A3/B4 or 0W-30 next. Last oil change was before I realized how good Castrol's PAO oils were. At the time I kept going back and forth on what to use and finally decided using the BMW oil was a fail-proof option. Plus, if any damage were to happen to the engine, I wouldn't have to explain to my wife why using 0W-40 in her car that specs 5W-30 didn't cause said damage... Even though we (bitogers) all know it wouldn't have been the oil's fault!
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
PAO wins again. GTL is good, but can't hang. I'll stick with Castrol.
But in Cooper you have GTL?
You're right. I may switch to EDGE 5W-30 A3/B4 or 0W-30 next. Last oil change was before I realized how good Castrol's PAO oils were. At the time I kept going back and forth on what to use and finally decided using the BMW oil was a fail-proof option. Plus, if any damage were to happen to the engine, I wouldn't have to explain to my wife why using 0W-40 in her car that specs 5W-30 didn't cause said damage... Even though we (bitogers) all know it wouldn't have been the oil's fault!
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