Don't like torx bolts on caliper brakets-02 Cougar

[ET16]

Originally Posted By: sdowney717
89 foot lbs, that seems way too much.
On my Roadmaster, I do not torque them, I tighten them and they have never come loose.
40 to 50 foot lbs I think is what I put them at.


I agree, but that's what the books says. It isn't my car, so I wanted to go by the book.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Kira
I've seen some 12 point stuff said to be for Volkswagens...is that what you mean? Sorry I don't have the exact words. Kira




http://www.metric-threaded.com/browse.aspx?id=856


I scratch my head and wonder why, every time I come across these fancy fasteners. Is it some engineer that wanted to make a statement, or is looking to cash in on specialty tool sales, or just trying to make someone else's life a bit more difficult one day. Why wouldn't a traditional hexagon bolt head work?


The fastener pictured is a traditional 12pt, or double hex (120° corners). It allows for thinner sockets (barely), finer indexing for tools, and also allows for more applied torque.

VW uses XZN, which is also called triple square (90° corners). It's a different solution for the same problem.


OK thanks, that makes sense. I have a pretty well stocked tool box, and haven't come across anything I couldn't remove yet. Here's my rub. We've all seen Torx fasteners holding taillight lenses in, where a simple Phillips screw would serve the exact same purpose, or calipers held in place where you needed an Allen wrench/socket and a 6 point hex head would do the same thing and simplify the job a bit. IIRC I have U bolts holding the rear U-joint to the differential in my van that has 4 nuts which are very similar to that holding it in place, it came from the factory with it. That is what prompted my comments.

 

[ET16]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Give me the measurements and I can find the bolt. Give me the diameter, thread pitch, and length. Tell me if the head needs to go into a recess.


It seems to be M10 x 1.5 x 25, class 10.9. I like those that Trav posted with the 12 points! Thanks!

 

[ET16]

Here's the original part:

https://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-screw_-w702016-s309.html

It looks more like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/M10-1-5-x-30mm-Screw-Torx-25mm-Head-T-45-Bolt-Black-/191657683175?hash=item2c9fb028e7:g:O90AAOSw9N1Vx5oL

Maybe I need a flange bolt to replace it?

 

[Trav]

Something like this should work fine use the drop down for the size, the flange is only about 18mm you could use a hardened washer though. If clearance is not an issue a grade 10.9 flange bolt from the hardware store should be fine, ACE has them up to 14mm diameter and 12.9 at the one I go to.

http://www.allensfasteners.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=0538

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
OK thanks, that makes sense. I have a pretty well stocked tool box, and haven't come across anything I couldn't remove yet. Here's my rub. We've all seen Torx fasteners holding taillight lenses in, where a simple Phillips screw would serve the exact same purpose, or calipers held in place where you needed an Allen wrench/socket and a 6 point hex head would do the same thing and simplify the job a bit. IIRC I have U bolts holding the rear U-joint to the differential in my van that has 4 nuts which are very similar to that holding it in place, it came from the factory with it. That is what prompted my comments.

I've been wrenching on helicopters and Deutsch autos so long it's what I'm used to. I don't get surprised by weird fasteners.

Actually, I have been surprised one time. The R53 MINI passenger engine mount has an ETorx bolt holding it in place. It's the only ETorx in the entire car. WTFrak.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: ET16
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Give me the measurements and I can find the bolt. Give me the diameter, thread pitch, and length. Tell me if the head needs to go into a recess.


It seems to be M10 x 1.5 x 25, class 10.9. I like those that Trav posted with the 12 points! Thanks!
Trav is the master !!

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: ET16
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Give me the measurements and I can find the bolt. Give me the diameter, thread pitch, and length. Tell me if the head needs to go into a recess.


It seems to be M10 x 1.5 x 25, class 10.9. I like those that Trav posted with the 12 points! Thanks!


89 lbs is too much for a 10.9. The chart I looked at shows 47lbs lubed and 60 dry.

If you step up to a 12.9, it is 55lbs lubed aND 70lbs dry.

 

[shDK]

Originally Posted By: Trav
12 point grade 12.9 bolts would be a good option if clearance is an issue.


In ny opinion 10.9 Would be a better choice. 12.9 are rarely used in such applications because they are so hard they become a bit more glass like. They can stretch way less then 10.9 and will snap faster. Also a 10.9 will still be harder then the metal the brakesadle is made off.

Also it should probably be a flangebolt

 

[ET16]

The published torque spec of 120 nm is confusing, especially since it seems to come up against the limit of the t50 bit; that also why it would be good to change them out.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: shDK
Originally Posted By: Trav
12 point grade 12.9 bolts would be a good option if clearance is an issue.


In ny opinion 10.9 Would be a better choice. 12.9 are rarely used in such applications because they are so hard they become a bit more glass like. They can stretch way less then 10.9 and will snap faster. Also a 10.9 will still be harder then the metal the brakesadle is made off.

Also it should probably be a flangebolt


Much of the problem with 12.9 fasteners being too brittle comes from the plating process it causes hydrogen embrittlement for this reason non electro plated fasteners should be used in high strength applications, black oxide is okay. Cheap bolts are another real problem but that's a different story.

The bracket and knuckle are not subjected to the same forces as the bolt, going by that theory there is never a need to use a fastener any stronger than the metal of the parts being held together. A flywheel and some CV axles are subjected to same type shearing loads but 12.9 is common in these application.
The bolts I linked to are black oxide ARP flange head bolts made from 8740 chrome moly which is also used in ARP wheel studs.