M1 0w40 FS; 4,800 miles; '12 VW Tiguan 2.0t

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Only real difference in performance between this and the Castrol seems to be the viscosity.

Code:


OIL M10w40FS Cast0w40

MILES IN USE 4.8k 5k

MILES 64.5k 55k

SAMPLE TAKEN 2/4/17 6/11/16



ALUMINUM 3 2

CHROMIUM 1 1

IRON 15 17

COPPER 2 1

LEAD 0 0

TIN 0 1

MOLYBDENUM 72 3

NICKEL 0 0

MANGANESE 0 0

SILVER 0 1

TITANIUM 1 45

POTASSIUM 1 0

BORON 174 2

SILICON 10 11

SODIUM 3 1

CALCIUM 2820 1869

MAGNESIUM 23 565

PHOSPHORUS 856 867

ZINC 932 1075

BARIUM 0 0



INSOLUBLES 0.2 0.2

WATER 0 0

FLASHPOINT ºF 405 400

SUS VIS 210ºF 62.9 71.2

cSt @ 212ºF 11.04 13.26
 
True, viscosity drop in so few miles is a little troubling with the M1 0w40. It dropped to a 0w30 essentially. Probably sheared the VII chemicals apart.
I'd stick with Castrol 0w40 since viscosity retention is critical for oil film thickness under hot conditions.
And the titanium in Castrol is nice to have. "Afton’s scientists believe the resulting compounds form protective FeTiO3films on the engine surfaces. ’The titanium chemistry gives us a large benefit in terms of engine protection,’ Bell says. "
 
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Castrol has titanium, sure enough. But it doesn't have the Boron, Moly, lots more Calcium, and no magnesium.

No way to judge via UOA if Titanium is more important than Boron/Moly. I don't think we can say anything except viscosities are different. My car requires a strong 30 grade.....which the lowered viscosity of the M1 0w-40 fits perfectly...and the viscosity of Castrol 0w-40 is too high for my application. Higher viscosity isn't always better.

Good UOA's. Thanks for posting those. My UOA's won't be past 2K miles so good to see these at 4K miles.
 
Mo--thanks much for posting these up--nice to see the Castrol 0-40 holding up, as I bought a lot of it for my wife's Q5 & daughter's Jetta during the AZ EOY clearance-----based on BITOG recommendations
Steve
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Castrol has titanium, sure enough. But it doesn't have the Boron, Moly, lots more Calcium, and no magnesium.

No, the Castrol has less calcium and more magnesium than M1. You might be thinking of the SN GF-5 M1 5w30 which is a magnesium tilted formula.

In a Tiguan you'd be better off with Castrol if M1 keeps shearing down like that.
 
Actually YES.

As I said and meant above, the Castrol has magnesium and titanium. The M1 0w-40 has moly, boron, lots more calcium, and NO magnesium. I couldn't have stated it any plainer. Indeed, the 20/30 grades of M1 do have magnesium. Never been confused about that.

Oddly, those same 20/30grades of Castrol have no magnesium. I wish these guys were more consistent across all their grades.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Actually YES.

As I said and meant above, the Castrol has magnesium and titanium. The M1 0w-40 has moly, boron, lots more calcium, and NO magnesium. I couldn't have stated it any plainer. Indeed, the 20/30 grades of M1 do have magnesium. Never been confused about that.

Oddly, those same 20/30grades of Castrol have no magnesium. I wish these guys were more consistent across all their grades.

Even you are better with Castrol 0W40 because this is example how oil stayed absolutely in grade. Cst of Castrol Edge 0W40 is 13.1. This UOA shows 13.26 which could be bit of difference due to testing equipment. But M1? Holy mole did it shear. What did they do to this oil? I did UOA twice with M1 0W40 old formula (VISOM) and it went from 13.5 to 13.3, absolutely staying in grade.
Now this just confirms more my thinking that there is a reason why M1 does not meet BMW LL-01 specification, and that is that oil just cannot meet it since they moved to GTL base stock.
 
It looks like there is more than one way to skin a cat to me. Wear is within statistical noise between them, I like the slightly higher viscosity and zinc for Euro engines but that's splitting hairs.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
It looks like there is more than one way to skin a cat to me. Wear is within statistical noise between them, I like the slightly higher viscosity and zinc for Euro engines but that's splitting hairs.

Take into consideration that that engine is specified for 10k OCI!
I do not want to know where that M1 would be at 10K!
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Actually YES.

As I said and meant above, the Castrol has magnesium and titanium. The M1 0w-40 has moly, boron, lots more calcium, and NO magnesium. I couldn't have stated it any plainer. Indeed, the 20/30 grades of M1 do have magnesium. Never been confused about that.

Oddly, those same 20/30grades of Castrol have no magnesium. I wish these guys were more consistent across all their grades.


I read your post the same way he did, the way you phrased it could be taken differently than you intended.

Magnesium seems to be increasingly common in oils intended for longer drains. I imagine why Castrol uses it in their LL-01 0w40. The M1 once the darling of BITOG just doesn't look near as strong here, though it appears to have worked fine. Probably not of much concern if you're going to do 5k OCI's on lubes in this category.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Actually YES.

As I said and meant above, the Castrol has magnesium and titanium. The M1 0w-40 has moly, boron, lots more calcium, and NO magnesium. I couldn't have stated it any plainer. Indeed, the 20/30 grades of M1 do have magnesium. Never been confused about that.

Oddly, those same 20/30grades of Castrol have no magnesium. I wish these guys were more consistent across all their grades.


I read your post the same way he did, the way you phrased it could be taken differently than you intended.

Magnesium seems to be increasingly common in oils intended for longer drains. I imagine why Castrol uses it in their LL-01 0w40. The M1 once the darling of BITOG just doesn't look near as strong here, though it appears to have worked fine. Probably not of much concern if you're going to do 5k OCI's on lubes in this category.

But, engine is specd. for 10K OCI and that M1 carries VW 502.00 approval.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Trav
It looks like there is more than one way to skin a cat to me. Wear is within statistical noise between them, I like the slightly higher viscosity and zinc for Euro engines but that's splitting hairs.

Take into consideration that that engine is specified for 10k OCI!
I do not want to know where that M1 would be at 10K!


How much more would it shear down or is it just speculation based on what the oil did the first 5K and assuming it will continue at that rate? What is the minimum viscosity for VW spec?
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Trav
It looks like there is more than one way to skin a cat to me. Wear is within statistical noise between them, I like the slightly higher viscosity and zinc for Euro engines but that's splitting hairs.

Take into consideration that that engine is specified for 10k OCI!
I do not want to know where that M1 would be at 10K!


How much more would it shear down or is it just speculation based on what the oil did the first 5K and assuming it will continue at that rate? What is the minimum viscosity for VW spec?

At this cst after 4.800 oil is already below minimum viscosity. That oil sheared down to ILSAC GF-5 W30 oil not VW 502.00 approved oil.
That M1 will shear down further, how much would be speculation, but it would go into 10cst range.
 
ACEA A3B4 (and other OEM approvals) sequence requires stay in grade.
M1 FS didn't stay in grade , Castrol does ..... in this application.
blush.gif
 
Maybe I have the wrong oil, but I question the Castrol 212F reading because of this.. http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/8EF85016E3EEEE6080257E8A0053DFAF/$File/BPXE-9YWGJ4.pdf
 
To add more context: my driving is almost all short trips of less than eight miles or so one way. Maybe once an OCI we'll have a highway trip of around 800 miles. I've always kept the OCI at 5k because of the lack of highway miles.
 
Originally Posted By: zeng
ACEA A3B4 (and other OEM approvals) sequence requires stay in grade.
M1 FS didn't stay in grade ,

For ACEA A3/B4, this "stay in grade" is measured after 30 cycles at 100°C. Possibly the M1 FS in OP's case was subject to more than 30 cycles?

In any case, M1 appears to be less shear stable than Castrol in OP's example.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: zeng
ACEA A3B4 (and other OEM approvals) sequence requires stay in grade.
M1 FS didn't stay in grade ,

For ACEA A3/B4, this "stay in grade" is measured after 30 cycles at 100°C. Possibly the M1 FS in OP's case was subject to more than 30 cycles?

In any case, M1 appears to be less shear stable than Castrol in OP's example.

It remineds me of SM version of old M1. SN VISOM was really stable.
 
Thx a lot for sharing it, motech!
Both 0W40 oils are very impressive for me by your - let's say - severe driving condition.

Drilling down into these perfect analytical reports: Mobil1 compensates the less shear stability by extra load of antiwear pack. Am I wrong? I would choose for my Volvo light pressure turbo engine the M1 oil for the proposed max 6K OCI.

Another open question for me for long time ago: why some car manufacturer (e.g. Volvo) recommends Castrol brand oils - only some marketing agreement? Or any high sophisticated chemistry in the background?
 
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