BMW LL01 alternate oils

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There seem to be a few options for BMW long life oil. If the oil change interval sure to only 5000 miles are there are better options to use? On the lubrizol site Porsche c30 and vw 507 specs offer more coverage than LL01. https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html If LL01 is those qualities and long change intervals then there must be some excellent options with a shortened life/more frequent change interval. I have been using German Castro 0w-30. I'm an oil novice so any pointed advice or links are much appreciated.
 
Main thing about the LL-01 and 229.5 (Mercedes) euro specs are the minimum HTHS=3.5 they carry. That means they don't necessarily want you using SN GF-5 ILSAC 5w30's which are at HTHS=2.9 to 3.1, too low.
With one exception: LL-01 FE (Fuel Economy version) is allowed on some BMW engines. I saw a chart of engines where they allow it, and it covers many engines in the BMW history. It's HTHS is about what SN GF-5 full syn oils typically have, so I consider SN GF-5 0w-30 or 5w-30 full syn oils safe to use in some BMW engines. I can't remember where the permissible list of BMW engines allowed to use LL-01 FE oils was. No "M" engines at least.
 
If your BMW engine is listed as allowing LL01 FE, then go ahead and use SN GF-5 full synthetic 0w-30 or 5w-30 (any brand, Valvoline, Quaker State, etc.) in your engine for slightly shortened oil change intervals, because the lower HTHS allows it. You'll get a boost in fuel economy around 2% too, a bonus.

From Quattro Pete:


BMW_oil_type_by_engine_5_2009.png
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Walmart's 5 quart jugs of Castrol 0w40 is hard to beat in price and meets all the euro specs.


+1

I service two M54 engines and an N52. I use Castrol 0w40 in all of them and they run great. Oil consumption even went down a bit compared to the BMW 5w30 that comes from the dealer. On the N52, the lifters were noticeably quieter as well with the 0w40.

A friend is also using the Castrol in his VW Jetta 1.8T with good results.
 
And the Mobil1 0w40 5-quart jugs at Walmart still carries the Mercedes 229.5 spec and Porsche A40 (mysteriously lost the LL-01 spec recently) so it passes very tough specs for off-warranty BMW engines,... use with confidence. Highly engineered quality syn oils.
 
OK, I found a reference on exactly what HTHS an LL-01 FE oil must have. Certainly relaxed from LL-01 non-FE's HTHS >= 3.5.
It's HTHS >= 3.0, so every Full Synthetic SN GF-5 oil qualifies for use in many BMW engines (see chart above).

Might want to shorten the oil change intervals if using a full syn SN GF-5 oil though, unless using Mobil1 Extended Performance 5w30 which should go up to 15,000 miles on an oil change interval (keep it to 10,000 miles or 1 year just to be safe in those LL-01 FE BMW applications InMy_not_so_HumbleOpinion).
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
OK, I found a reference on exactly what HTHS an LL-01 FE oil must have. Certainly relaxed from LL-01 non-FE's HTHS >= 3.5.
It's HTHS >= 3.0, so every Full Synthetic SN GF-5 oil qualifies for use in many BMW engines (see chart above).

But it should be noted that there is more to the BMW spec than just minimum HT/HS requirement. The oil has to pass specific wear tests on BMW engines. Unfortunately, I do not know the underlying details of these tests.

From an older version of the Lubrizol relative performance tool, courtesy of our friend OVERKILL:

LL01.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
But it should be noted that there is more to the BMW spec than just minimum HT/HS requirement. The oil has to pass specific wear tests on BMW engines. Unfortunately, I do not know the underlying details of these tests.


The OP said he wanted a shorter oil change interval. Full change intervals, I'd use LL-01 Castrol 0w40.
dexos1 meets wear, deposits, etc. well enough to be good enough for LL-01 FE usage for shorter OCI. All name brand full syns carry dexos1 these days.
 
That Lubrizol spider chart above is a bit misleading. All full syn dexos1 0w30 or 5w30 (any brand) motor oils are HTHS>=3.0, not the 2.6 in the spider chart, so it matches LL-01 FE.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
dexos1 meets wear, deposits, etc. well enough to be good enough for LL-01 FE usage for shorter OCI. All name brand full syns carry dexos1 these days.

IMO, ACEA A5/B5 would be closer to the requirements of LL-01 FE. Alas, finding an oil meeting A5/B5 in the US might be challenging.
smile.gif


Dexos1 falls short of LL-01 FE spec when it comes to piston deposits and soot thickening, but we may be approaching hair splitting territory here...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
IMO, ACEA A5/B5 would be closer to the requirements of LL-01 FE. Alas, finding an oil meeting A5/B5 in the US might be challenging.
smile.gif
Dexos1 falls short of LL-01 FE spec when it comes to piston deposits and soot thickening, but we may be approaching hair splitting territory here...


Shorter OCI's for sure if using a dexos1 oil in an LL-01 FE BMW application.
dexos1 does have very good deposit, etc., all-around high performance requirements.
How much shorter of an OCI using a dexos1? I'd be happy with 3/4 of a normal BMW OCI (LL-01 FE engines only).
Also, dexos1 includes quite a few ACEA tests too.
 
The car is a 2011 335i with an n55 engine requiring LL01, not the FE, if that matters. So, which approval is equivalent or comparable to LL01 less the longevity? SN gf-5 or A5/B5 sounds close. If the oil has the same or better hths rating AND covers the LL01 spider area, it should be acceptable, right? The total base number correlates with longevity, but with shorter OCI, that would matter much less. Also the NOWAK % of Castro 0w-30 is 7ish and many domestic products are difficult to find NOWAKs to compare. Are there any charts that compare these stats for mainstream oils? This oil thing is addictive...trying to separate marketing from fact.
 
Originally Posted By: HolyOilSeeker
So, which approval is equivalent or comparable to LL01 less the longevity?

I'd say ACEA A3/B4.

Personally, I'd just run Castrol 0w-40 in it. It's very reasonably priced in 5qt jugs from Walmart. You are not going to find other non-LL01 quality synthetic oil for less.
 
Originally Posted By: HolyOilSeeker
The car is a 2011 335i with an n55 engine requiring LL01, not the FE, if that matters. So, which approval is equivalent or comparable to LL01 less the longevity? SN gf-5 or A5/B5 sounds close. If the oil has the same or better hths rating AND covers the LL01 spider area, it should be acceptable, right? The total base number correlates with longevity, but with shorter OCI, that would matter much less. Also the NOWAK % of Castro 0w-30 is 7ish and many domestic products are difficult to find NOWAKs to compare. Are there any charts that compare these stats for mainstream oils? This oil thing is addictive...trying to separate marketing from fact.

Stick STRICTLY to LL-01 and NOT LL-01 FE etc in N55!
Best oils are Castrol 0W30/40! Since you are using already Castrol 0W30, stick to it or switch to Castrol 0W40 since it is same base stock, just cheaper in Wal Mart ($26 for 5qt jug).
NOACK of Castrol 0W40 is 9.1%
0W30 is 8.1%.
Do not experiment with ILSAC GF-5 oils in N55! Also, stick to LL-01 and not Lower SAPS oils such as Mobil1 5W30 ESP etc or oils carrying BMW LL-04 approval, VW 504.00/507.00 or MB 229.51.
You wan toils that meet: BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, VW 502.00, Porsche A40!
 
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They require LL-01 in your engine for a reason. Since Castrol 0w-40 carries the cert and is about the same price, why risk it? Saving $2 per oil change isn't worth the risk. If money is that tight. Maybe you shouldn't have bought a BMW
 
Guys, oilspecifications.org contains the N55 === LL-01 FE endorsement:
"BMW Longlife-01 FE (BMW LL-01 FE)
Fully synthetic long-life oil with fuel economy properties. Oils meeting this specifications must have a low HTHS viscosity to meet the manufacturer's fuel economy requirements. These oils are only suitable for the following engines: N1x, N2x, N54, N55, N63, N74."

That chart above is too old to even mention the N55, but it appears its fine to use an HTHS=3.0 oil in that engine. So a dexos1 0w-30 or 5w-30 can be used on a shortened oil change interval safely. BMW recommends HTHS=3.0 there.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Guys, oilspecifications.org contains the N55 === LL-01 FE endorsement:
"BMW Longlife-01 FE (BMW LL-01 FE)
Fully synthetic long-life oil with fuel economy properties. Oils meeting this specifications must have a low HTHS viscosity to meet the manufacturer's fuel economy requirements. These oils are only suitable for the following engines: N1x, N2x, N54, N55, N63, N74."

That chart above is too old to even mention the N55, but it appears its fine to use an HTHS=3.0 oil in that engine. So a dexos1 0w-30 or 5w-30 can be used on a shortened oil change interval safely. BMW recommends HTHS=3.0 there.

I know that LL-01 FE is suitable. But to reiterate again: stay away from it!
Unless your driving patter is 3 miles in one direction, leave car for 8hrs, 3 miles back, stick to LL-01.
Turbos in N54 and turbo in N55 are running extremely hot. And while I appreciate BMW's concern for environment, I am not so sure whether engine and wallet would appreciate that. In the end, what is gain in fuel economy with LL01 FE?
Not to mention NOACK in those oils which usually is 13-15%.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Turbos in N54 and turbo in N55 are running extremely hot. And while I appreciate BMW's concern for environment, I am not so sure whether engine and wallet would appreciate that. In the end, what is gain in fuel economy with LL01 FE?


Gain in horsepower, and fuel economy too, is 1.5% going to an HTHS=3.0 oil here, due to less engine friction.

Using a full syn dexos1 oil (used in turbo engines all the time) will work fine. Remember BMW N52, N54, and N55 sixes have great oil-to-coolant heat exchangers to keep oil temperatures in a tight range.
Again, to the OP's original stated goal, he could change at 5,000 miles and be in great shape with a BMW-recommended HTHS level.
Trust BMW, they have been making engines a couple of years now.
 
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