Chopped or feathering type tire wear.

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wtd

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Jun 25, 2002
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southwest Mo.
Hi guys, I need some advice or suggestions for the tire wear issues on my 2014 Mustang GT. I bought this car new and seem to have issues with loud tire noise pretty much since the car got 5,000 miles on it. I took the car into the dealer a few times and complained about the noises that I could hear because I wasn't sure if it was the tires or maybe the rear end or the carrier bearing on the two piece drive shaft. Every time the dealer said it was tire noise. Factory wheels are 18" with Pirelli Pzero nero tires. I have also had the tires rotated every 5,000 miles since new.

Two years ago I put on a set of take off 19" upgraded factory Mustang rims with factory Pirelli Pzero Nero new tires on them. Car had about 11,000 miles on it at the time. This seemed to quiet the noises down but after a few thousand miles it started to do the same thing.

This is when I started paying attention to what the tread looked like and noticed that it was getting the feathered or a chopped effect on the inner edges of the tread, mostly on the left side but some on the right.

After some research, I learned that a bad front end alignment usually causes these types of tire wear so last summer I had the dealer do a front end alignment and balance all four wheels. They told me that the alignment was only slightly out but it wasn't enough to cause the tire wear that I was seeing but they didn't know what else could cause the wear and blamed it on the tires.

In August right before the 3/36,000 mile warranty was out, I took the car to a different dealer just to make sure the noises I was hearing wasn't anything mechanical and this dealer also said it was the tires and that they were chopped.

So for you guys with more experience than I on this stuff, what else should I be looking at to try and figure this issue out? New tires for this car are up in the $1,000 range and I don't want to ruin another set of tires before getting this figured out.

So can the brand of tires themselves cause this or is there something else in the front suspension that could be causing this? Car only has 24,200 miles on it and has never been wrecked or had front suspension damage that I know of. Thanks for any suggestions. This tire noise is so loud it drives me crazy when I drive the car.

Wayne
 
Here are the results of the front end alignment I had done.

Front caster left was initially 6.8 degrees with normal range being 6.4-7.9. Final results were 6.8
Front caster right was initially 6.9 with normal range same as above. Final was 6.9
Front Camber left was initially -0.9 with normal range being -1.5 to 0.0 with final being -0.9
Front camber right was initially -1.0 with final being -0.9
front left toe was initially -0.5 with normal range being 0.00 to 0.20 with final being 0.15
front right toe was initially 0.05 and final was 0.05
front right toe total was initially 0.00 with normal range being 0.00 to 0.40 with final being 0.20
 
IME Pirellis wear fairly quickly. Sounds like alignment was part of the problem, you may need to reverse them on the rim to get even wear. Wear on the inside can be a result of hard cornering towards that tire.
 
I do not know it this has anything to do with you problems, but years ago I use to have problems with tires after rotating them. I then switched to doing only front to back, and back to front rotations and always keeping the tires on the same side, and my tire problems went away.
 
Are they directional tread tires? If so you need to follow the rotation pattern that JimPghPA suggests (post above mine).

The kind of wear you are experiencing can be caused by tire temperature issues (exceeding the temperature rating of the tire). Multiple possible causes but a common one is under-inflation combined with hard cornering (like running a track day or participating in an autocross), or running at high speed in general on the highway.

It only takes one over temperature event to cause the wear you are seeing. What is the temperature rating of the tire? Note that if under-inflated, you will reach the temperature capacity at a much lower speed than the rating suggests.
 
First, my experience is that for there to be good tire wear, the published alignment tolerances are too wide by half - and those measurements bear this out.

Second, any camber over 1 degree tends to cause irregular wear, especially if the front toe is not right at the spec. Those measurements bear this out. Unfortunately, camber really adds good handling to a car.

And lastly, once you have irregular wear, it is extremely difficult to wear a different pattern over the old one.

So, wtd, with that in mind, you have to decide if you want good tire wear or good handling. You also have to keep in mind that you need to start over with a new set of tires.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm not sure if the tires are directional or not. I don't think so because there are no indications of this on the tires themselves. The tires have been rotated front to back with tires on same side every time but once.

The tire temperature rating is an "A" and I always keep the tires inflated to 32 psi which is what the door sticker says. I don't track or road course the car and most of my driving is on mostly straight or gentle curves. Nothing that should cause tire wear issues.

I did just read that bad bushings in the front suspension could cause unusual tire wear but at my fairly low mileage, it seems unlikely that I have that problem.

Since I don't track this car I would prefer good tire wear over good handling and I realize that these tires are not ever going to wear right at this point. I just want to make sure that there is not something wrong else where before I get new tires. The biggest annoyance is the tire noise that I'm currently experiencing. I don't want to get this again with new tires because it takes the enjoyment out of driving this car. This has been the loudest tire noise I have ever experienced on any vehicle I have ever owned.

I don't ever plan on getting Pirelli's again because I have not read anything very good about them. I'm considering Continental extreme contact DWS or Michelin Pilot's as the next tire for this car. Any other choices I should look at?

CapriRacer,
What alignment specs should this car be at? Are you saying that my final specs are still outside of what they should be? Should I have the car aligned at an actual tire shop instead of the dealer? Thanks again to everyone.

Wayne

PS. I noticed I made an error on the alignment spec post. It should have said "total front toe specs" instead of "total front right specs".
 
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I did forget to say that I typically drive this car between 60-85 mph when doing outside of town driving or on the interstate so I'm not sure if these speeds would cause temperature issues. I also don't do burnouts or any other crazy types of driving.

Wayne
 
Originally Posted By: wtd
.... CapriRacer, What alignment specs should this car be at? Are you saying that my final specs are still outside of what they should be? Should I have the car aligned at an actual tire shop instead of the dealer? ....


Dial out as much camber as you can get out. Shoot for Zero. Yes, that's outside the tolerance. That might require a camber kit. Also get the rest of the specs as close to the nominal value as possible.

My guess is you will need to find an alignment shop that will work with you on this. Talk to them BEFORE you make an appointment. If they do not want to work outside the box, find someone else.
 
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Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: wtd
.... CapriRacer, What alignment specs should this car be at? Are you saying that my final specs are still outside of what they should be? Should I have the car aligned at an actual tire shop instead of the dealer? ....


Dial out as much camber as you can get out. Shoot for Zero. Yes, that's outside the tolerance. That might require a camber kit. Also get the rest of the specs as close to the nominal value as possible.

My guess is you will need to find an alignment shop that will work with you on this. Talk to them BEFORE you make an appointment. If they do not want to work outside the box, find someone else.


Ok, thanks. On Friday I'm taking it to a tire place that has done alignments on some other cars I've had in the past. They are going to do a free inspection to make sure there are no suspension issues and then go from there. I will talk to them about what you have said. Thanks.

Wayne
 
Part of the problem is, the car is set up to drive the [censored] out of it, which I would recommend. An occasional burnout would help smooth the tires out. Plus you need to wear them out, before they YEAR out.
 
Totally different beast, but with my truck and odd tire wear like you are experiencing was usually cured with new shocks.
 
On Friday they will inspect the entire front suspension including the shocks and bushings to see if any of them are the problem.

I shouldn't have to run the [censored] out of the car just to have normal tire wear. The tires on the car are only about three years old at the most so I should still have some years left.
 
Well, I had the Mustang looked at today at the tire shop and they could not find any suspension type issues. Nothing was loose or looked bent. The alignment specs were pretty much the same as I posted above except the right side toe read 0.00 degrees and the left side read 0.07 degrees. Total Toe was 0.06 degrees.

They also said they don't see how it could cause what they see on my tires. They are going to talk to some people about my situation and see if they can come up with some type of resolution.

They said caster/camber plates could be an option but said that they shouldn't have to be used on a stock suspension.

they suggested taking it back to Ford and telling them that I've been having this problem since the car had low miles. I told them that the 3/36,000 mile part of the warranty is over and that Ford will not do anything about it since they blamed it on the tires the entire time the car was under warranty.
 
wtd,

I hope you - and the alignment folks you are working with - realize that the present alignment is NOT what caused the tires to have the wear issue. It was the alignment BEFORE.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
wtd,

I hope you - and the alignment folks you are working with - realize that the present alignment is NOT what caused the tires to have the wear issue. It was the alignment BEFORE.


Yes, I realize that but I don't know if I'm going to be able to find anyone that will dial it in to anything better than what the range that they have listed for my car. I compared the acceptable range that the dealer had listed and the ones that the independent shop I took it to had and they are the same.

In one of your other posts in this thread you said that the range of acceptable specs for my car are still not acceptable to get a good alignment. What specific specs should I tell a shop that I want the camber, caster, and toe to be set at. Should they all be set in the middle of what the acceptable range is?

This is an area that i'm totally clueless about. Thank you for all of your help.

PS. Can you give me some ideas on what brand of tire I should run on this car and how many miles should I go between rotations?

Wayne
 
Here are pictures of the alignment done at the dealer last year and a picture of what my alignment was when it was checked yesterday. I did not get the alignment done yesterday.

Alignment done by the Ford dealership.


Check done by an independent shop.


I'm not sure what the current specs are for on the independent shop paperwork because they did not do an alignment.

Wayne
 
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I've said this in a different way, but the general principle is that the range is too wide! By half.

So for camber the range should be: 0.38 degrees to 1.15 degrees - with a 0.1 degrees more on the right front - EXCEPT, I think anything more than 1 degree causes wear issues if the toe isn't exactly right, so I would subtract a half a degree from the target value and use 0.9 degrees to 0.0 degrees

Toe: 0.05 degrees to 0.15 degrees each side Total toe: 0.10 degrees to 0.30 degrees

Caster: 6.8 degrees to 7.5 degrees

Apparently the rear doesn't have a tolerance.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
I've said this in a different way, but the general principle is that the range is too wide! By half.

So for camber the range should be: 0.38 degrees to 1.15 degrees - with a 0.1 degrees more on the right front - EXCEPT, I think anything more than 1 degree causes wear issues if the toe isn't exactly right, so I would subtract a half a degree from the target value and use 0.9 degrees to 0.0 degrees

Toe: 0.05 degrees to 0.15 degrees each side Total toe: 0.10 degrees to 0.30 degrees

Caster: 6.8 degrees to 7.5 degrees

Apparently the rear doesn't have a tolerance.


Thank you for this information. I will talk to the shop and see if they will set everything within the specs you gave.

The rear end is a solid rear axle so everything is fixed.

Thanks again.

Wayne
 
I had a 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe bought new. By about the first 8000 miles the front tires were cupped and making a lot of noise. It turned out that the factory alignment specs were wrong. The dealer pro rated the tires and provided a new set and adjusted the alignment according to the TSB. No problems after that. So, it may be that the factory alignment specs for the Mustang were wrong. I forget whether it was a caster or camber problem with the Infiniti, something to do with supposedly having better handling when set up from the factory that in practice wasn't such a good idea.
 
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