HDEO CH vs CI vs CJ vs CK

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I wanted to start a conversation on the various HDEO's in light of the new CK spec coming out.

Given that there are so many different specs of HDEO's what are people using and are there any reasons why a particular spec would be better suited for shared sump motorbikes?

I personally use a CI+ 15w40 but I've been wondering because I've seen CH HDEO pretty cheap.

(not talking about MA spec vs HDEO suitability so please lets not get off subject
smile.gif
)

What do people think?

Cheers
 
Originally Posted By: dirtydannyd
...would be better suited for shared sump motorbikes?

... been wondering because I've seen CH HDEO pretty cheap.


Where are you finding CH oil?

What year motorcycle?
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex

Where are you finding CH oil?
What year motorcycle?

Seen them in Supercheap Auto and Autobarn
My bikes are 1999 and 2007. But not specifically limited to my bikes. Given that HDEO's seem to work well (and I've personally had success using it in various bikes) and there can be a substantial price difference between the different specs, I thought I'd ask the question to anyone who has a bit more knowledge than I do.

Or would one say "just chuck the cheapest xW-40 HDEO in it" because they're all the same for motorbikes?



Originally Posted By: Rand
I assume you are just leaving the "-4" off all those specs

What do you mean?
 
Originally Posted By: dirtydannyd
I wanted to start a conversation on the various HDEO's in light of the new CK spec coming out.

Given that there are so many different specs of HDEO's what are people using and are there any reasons why a particular spec would be better suited for shared sump motorbikes?

I personally use a CI+ 15w40 but I've been wondering because I've seen CH HDEO pretty cheap.

(not talking about MA spec vs HDEO suitability so please lets not get off subject
smile.gif
)

What do people think?

Cheers


I think you are fine with CI+ and would stay with it.
NO, I would not go backwards to a CH oil, no way (but I cant tell you why because I dont know *L*) .

You wont get many responses, as in the USA its almost impossible to buy any oil less then CJ4.
Amsoil does sell a CI oil and MIGHT be my choice if I wasnt using the oil that I do now.
Amsoil = expensive and hard to buy at $10 a quart.

My 15/50 HEDO semi is only $3. a quart and meets manufacturers requirement.
I guess that is the key, meets manufacturers requirement.

All the oils are backwards compatible and the newer versions better at redecuding wear, sludge ... more or less improved, so why go backwards?
 
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Watching the CK-4 debate closely since I use HDEOs in bikes.

I did find this article that explains the absence of API gasoline ratings on CK-4 oils, they say it is emissions related.

“In order for a diesel engine oil to claim an ‘S’ category, it must now meet all of the gasoline category’s criteria, including the limit on phosphorous levels,” Negri continues. “Phosphorous has long demonstrated proven protective qualities versus ashless chemistries in diesel engines, but has also been known to shorten the life of automotive catalyst systems in gasoline engines. This means that diesel engine oil must be below 0.08% phosphorous to claim an ‘S’ category approval [the CJ-4 specification allows up to 0.12% phosphorous].”

The loophole that allows higher phosphorous levels from diesel engine oils when used in gasoline engines will be effectively closed. In practical terms, this will create a clear line in the sand between diesel-only formulations (“high phosphorous”) and universal oils (“low phosphorous”).

http://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/demistifying-new-engine-oil-categories-compatibility-ck4-fa4/
 
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Watching the CK-4 debate closely since I use HDEOs in bikes.

I did find this article that explains the absence of API gasoline ratings on CK-4 oils, they say it is emissions related.

“In order for a diesel engine oil to claim an ‘S’ category, it must now meet all of the gasoline category’s criteria, including the limit on phosphorous levels,” Negri continues. “Phosphorous has long demonstrated proven protective qualities versus ashless chemistries in diesel engines, but has also been known to shorten the life of automotive catalyst systems in gasoline engines. This means that diesel engine oil must be below 0.08% phosphorous to claim an ‘S’ category approval [the CJ-4 specification allows up to 0.12% phosphorous].”

The loophole that allows higher phosphorous levels from diesel engine oils when used in gasoline engines will be effectively closed. In practical terms, this will create a clear line in the sand between diesel-only formulations (“high phosphorous”) and universal oils (“low phosphorous”).

http://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/demistifying-new-engine-oil-categories-compatibility-ck4-fa4/


Unless you are running 10W-30 or lower viscosity in your bike, the phosphorus restrictions on API grades are irrelevant. Phosphorus levels are only limited for SAE grades: 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30. All other viscosity grades have no phosphorus maximum restriction. API SM and SN actually have a phosphorus minimum of 0.06%.

So if the 15W-40s and the like meet the API S category specs, they could claim it as far as I see from the API requirements.
 
My friend has used just about every brand of diesel oil in his old Honda Goldwing and it's still going strong.The owners manual just says to use and SAE grade oil from 10/40-20/50. That oil is shared with the trans and motor. It really seems you can use anything in a bike and really only have to change it if the shift quality goes bad. Alarm guy loves to state that Harley "requires" diesel oil which is not correct. They're first Recommendation is an non API rated oil (theirs), as the first choice to use in their motorcycles. They "suggest" that you use Diesel oil if their oil isn't available. Good luck finding a diesel oil manufacturer that recommends using their diesel oil in a motorcycle. Harley won't recommend you use another brand of motorcycle oil ,like Mcdonald's won't recommend you eat at Burger King if a Mcdonald's isn't available.,,,
 
I will be interested to see if Rotella 15w-40 will be JASO-MA as a CK-4 lube.
I liked the fact that the CJ-4 version was good for -MA.
Not that I absolutely must have that cert; it's just nice to see it as a reassurance.
 
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Watching the CK-4 debate closely since I use HDEOs in bikes.

I did find this article that explains the absence of API gasoline ratings on CK-4 oils, they say it is emissions related.

“In order for a diesel engine oil to claim an ‘S’ category, it must now meet all of the gasoline category’s criteria, including the limit on phosphorous levels,” Negri continues. “Phosphorous has long demonstrated proven protective qualities versus ashless chemistries in diesel engines, but has also been known to shorten the life of automotive catalyst systems in gasoline engines. This means that diesel engine oil must be below 0.08% phosphorous to claim an ‘S’ category approval [the CJ-4 specification allows up to 0.12% phosphorous].”

The loophole that allows higher phosphorous levels from diesel engine oils when used in gasoline engines will be effectively closed. In practical terms, this will create a clear line in the sand between diesel-only formulations (“high phosphorous”) and universal oils (“low phosphorous”).

http://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/demistifying-new-engine-oil-categories-compatibility-ck4-fa4/



In my other post to you a few days ago I posted 'good post" and info.

Then, YESTERDAY I was in Walmart, The NEW DELO SDE 400 CK4 Oil is also API SN for gasoline automobiles.
In fact, it has quite an IMPRESSIVE listing of claims of all the categorys the oil meets (ACEA Etc) but it is API CERTIFIED CK4/SN

Click,, From Chevrons website, but MANY more actual claims on the bottle itself
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy


I think you are fine with CI+ and would stay with it.
NO, I would not go backwards to a CH oil, no way (but I cant tell you why because I dont know *L*) .

You wont get many responses, as in the USA its almost impossible to buy any oil less then CJ4.
Amsoil does sell a CI oil and MIGHT be my choice if I wasnt using the oil that I do now.
Amsoil = expensive and hard to buy at $10 a quart.

My 15/50 HEDO semi is only $3. a quart and meets manufacturers requirement.
I guess that is the key, meets manufacturers requirement.

All the oils are backwards compatible and the newer versions better at redecuding wear, sludge ... more or less improved, so why go backwards?


Cheers mate. I thought that CJ had less zinc so CI was 'better' in that it had more anti wear agents for non-cat bikes.
No worries. Thanks for the reply. The CI+ I'm using still seems to be the goods.
 
I cant comment on the zinc level because I dont know. I can say, more zinc or not, with each following designation comes a requirement for wear and engines deposits.
More or less the wear standard has to be less for CI or CJ oil then it was for CH.

I never thought about it too much, impossible to find ch4 oil here and again, very rare to find a CI.
Its pretty much CJ4 or now, CK I noticed the Delo CK oil here has the ACEA ratings on it, first time I ever saw that in the USA.
Maybe its just because its a new oil and simplicity of packaging. Its certainly is nice to see the ACEA.
No question in my mind that the refining process has reduced wear and zinc is not required in the amounts it used to be, but what do I know. *L*
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Watching the CK-4 debate closely since I use HDEOs in bikes.

I did find this article that explains the absence of API gasoline ratings on CK-4 oils, they say it is emissions related.

“In order for a diesel engine oil to claim an ‘S’ category, it must now meet all of the gasoline category’s criteria, including the limit on phosphorous levels,” Negri continues. “Phosphorous has long demonstrated proven protective qualities versus ashless chemistries in diesel engines, but has also been known to shorten the life of automotive catalyst systems in gasoline engines. This means that diesel engine oil must be below 0.08% phosphorous to claim an ‘S’ category approval [the CJ-4 specification allows up to 0.12% phosphorous].”

The loophole that allows higher phosphorous levels from diesel engine oils when used in gasoline engines will be effectively closed. In practical terms, this will create a clear line in the sand between diesel-only formulations (“high phosphorous”) and universal oils (“low phosphorous”).

http://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/demistifying-new-engine-oil-categories-compatibility-ck4-fa4/



In my other post to you a few days ago I posted 'good post" and info.

Then, YESTERDAY I was in Walmart, The NEW DELO SDE 400 CK4 Oil is also API SN for gasoline automobiles.
In fact, it has quite an IMPRESSIVE listing of claims of all the categorys the oil meets (ACEA Etc) but it is API CERTIFIED CK4/SN

Click,, From Chevrons website, but MANY more actual claims on the bottle itself


Interesting, I might have to look into DELO.
 
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