Direct Injection and Fuel Injection Flus???
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Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
...a certified wallet-lightener...made of freshly squeezed snake... when do you plan on removing your intake to check cleanliness? ...doing a solid not-a-darn-thing...
I love this guy!
+1 He's most likely right
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
...a certified wallet-lightener...made of freshly squeezed snake... when do you plan on removing your intake to check cleanliness? ...doing a solid not-a-darn-thing...
I love this guy!
+1 He's most likely right
It was just a service recommendation as there is nothing to indicate any problems currently so I just wanted everyone to be clear on that issue. The car is running fine as for as I know as she went in for an oil change and tire rotation and this was a on the list of service recommendation along with new air filter /$40, Air condition filter $69.99, Throttle Body Induction Clean $$79.99 . That is it.
whenever a salesperson tries to sell you these extras, it's an opportunity to throw them for a loop by disparaging their product. You can say, Is your car so defective that it requires x,y,z or needs an extended warranty? Why does it break down all the time?
In other words they will have to justify the extra only by saying that their car sucks. It turns the negotiation back to perhaps you don't want a [censored] product, rather then scaring a confirmed buyer into more.
In other words they will have to justify the extra only by saying that their car sucks. It turns the negotiation back to perhaps you don't want a [censored] product, rather then scaring a confirmed buyer into more.
134,000 miles on my 2008 CTS 3.6DI and no issues. While I have not peeked to see what my valves actually look like, I do my own little preventative maintenance. At each oil change I spray a full can of carb/intake cleaner thru the intake with motor running. I usually see dark gray moisture out the exhaust tips while doing this. I have just begun using the CRC DI cleaner - not sure if there is any benefit over regular carb/intake cleaners or not.
The question that I've not seen answered anywhere is how heavy do the valve deposits have to be before they actually cause issues. I would venture a guess that ALL engines, DI or not, end up with some amount of residue on valves. I personally don't plan to worry about it unless they actually cause idle, performance, or fuel economy issues. I'll bet that the vast majority of the anxiety, cleaning products, and catch cans are wastes of time, money, and mental energy.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
The question that I've not seen answered anywhere is how heavy do the valve deposits have to be before they actually cause issues. I would venture a guess that ALL engines, DI or not, end up with some amount of residue on valves. I personally don't plan to worry about it unless they actually cause idle, performance, or fuel economy issues. I'll bet that the vast majority of the anxiety, cleaning products, and catch cans are wastes of time, money, and mental energy.
You will lose horsepower until the buildup gets so extreme that you start to see cold-start misfires. When the carbon is cold and rock-hard it prevents the valve from fully closing.
Here's some info geared toward VW/Audi from 034 Motorsport. Keep in mind they are selling a service, but other 4.2 owners have posted similar before-and-after dyno results on VWVortex. The 4.2 V8 and 5.2 V10 are Audi's most extreme offenders.
The question that I've not seen answered anywhere is how heavy do the valve deposits have to be before they actually cause issues. I would venture a guess that ALL engines, DI or not, end up with some amount of residue on valves. I personally don't plan to worry about it unless they actually cause idle, performance, or fuel economy issues. I'll bet that the vast majority of the anxiety, cleaning products, and catch cans are wastes of time, money, and mental energy.
You will lose horsepower until the buildup gets so extreme that you start to see cold-start misfires. When the carbon is cold and rock-hard it prevents the valve from fully closing.
Here's some info geared toward VW/Audi from 034 Motorsport. Keep in mind they are selling a service, but other 4.2 owners have posted similar before-and-after dyno results on VWVortex. The 4.2 V8 and 5.2 V10 are Audi's most extreme offenders.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
134,000 miles on my 2008 CTS 3.6DI and no issues. While I have not peeked to see what my valves actually look like, I do my own little preventative maintenance. At each oil change I spray a full can of carb/intake cleaner thru the intake with motor running. I usually see dark gray moisture out the exhaust tips while doing this. I have just begun using the CRC DI cleaner - not sure if there is any benefit over regular carb/intake cleaners or not.
Have you ever replaced the plugs? Doesn't the intake need to be removed, and if so could you see the back of the intake valves?
134,000 miles on my 2008 CTS 3.6DI and no issues. While I have not peeked to see what my valves actually look like, I do my own little preventative maintenance. At each oil change I spray a full can of carb/intake cleaner thru the intake with motor running. I usually see dark gray moisture out the exhaust tips while doing this. I have just begun using the CRC DI cleaner - not sure if there is any benefit over regular carb/intake cleaners or not.
Have you ever replaced the plugs? Doesn't the intake need to be removed, and if so could you see the back of the intake valves?
My understanding that the carbon that is built up on is on the back side of the valves for Direct Injection and spraying into the intake will not have any effect as it does not reach this area. I think the only real solution to rid the carbon is by removing the cover and blasting the valves clean or scrapping them clean. Either one can be expensive if done at a shop.
Originally Posted By: mctmatt
My understanding that the carbon that is built up on is on the back side of the valves for Direct Injection and spraying into the intake will not have any effect as it does not reach this area. I think the only real solution to rid the carbon is by removing the cover and blasting the valves clean or scrapping them clean. Either one can be expensive if done at a shop.
Manually spraying something into the intake WILL reach the back of the valve. It's the DI itself that doesn't. Hence the problem.
My understanding that the carbon that is built up on is on the back side of the valves for Direct Injection and spraying into the intake will not have any effect as it does not reach this area. I think the only real solution to rid the carbon is by removing the cover and blasting the valves clean or scrapping them clean. Either one can be expensive if done at a shop.
Manually spraying something into the intake WILL reach the back of the valve. It's the DI itself that doesn't. Hence the problem.
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Manually spraying something into the intake WILL reach the back of the valve. It's the DI itself that doesn't. Hence the problem.
No guarantee anything liquid will evenly reach all valves. These are dry manifolds, no fuel in them, hence the virtual guarantee of uneven distribution.
Good old Italian Tune Up will clean them...
Manually spraying something into the intake WILL reach the back of the valve. It's the DI itself that doesn't. Hence the problem.
No guarantee anything liquid will evenly reach all valves. These are dry manifolds, no fuel in them, hence the virtual guarantee of uneven distribution.
Good old Italian Tune Up will clean them...
As I have stated before, BG makes a fogger machine that basically allows you to run the car on BG44K pumped in through the intake manifold.
We borescoped the valves to verify deposits. We ran the car for 30 minutes on this stupid machine and it didn't do a thing to 60k worth of valve deposits. Well, I take that back, it made them wet. Maybe if you ran the car for hours on the machine it would eventually break loose hard carbon chunks into your engine, but is that what you want? Never mind what a constant wash of solvents into your cylinder could do to ring lubrication...
We ended up pulling the manifold and doing a walnut blast on the valves. It is better to save your money and deal with intake deposits the correct way if or when you ever have to. DI deposits have less of an impact on performance in a forced induction car. Plenty of VW 2.0 owners have NEVER had a carbon cleaning. Are their valves dirty? Yes. Has it affected drivability? No.
SteveSRT8: once the deposits are on there no amount of hot-footing will remove them, though it does seems that more "enthusiastic" drivers tend to have less problems.
As they say, "a redline a day keeps the doctor away..."
We borescoped the valves to verify deposits. We ran the car for 30 minutes on this stupid machine and it didn't do a thing to 60k worth of valve deposits. Well, I take that back, it made them wet. Maybe if you ran the car for hours on the machine it would eventually break loose hard carbon chunks into your engine, but is that what you want? Never mind what a constant wash of solvents into your cylinder could do to ring lubrication...
We ended up pulling the manifold and doing a walnut blast on the valves. It is better to save your money and deal with intake deposits the correct way if or when you ever have to. DI deposits have less of an impact on performance in a forced induction car. Plenty of VW 2.0 owners have NEVER had a carbon cleaning. Are their valves dirty? Yes. Has it affected drivability? No.
SteveSRT8: once the deposits are on there no amount of hot-footing will remove them, though it does seems that more "enthusiastic" drivers tend to have less problems.
As they say, "a redline a day keeps the doctor away..."
Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
134,000 miles on my 2008 CTS 3.6DI and no issues. While I have not peeked to see what my valves actually look like, I do my own little preventative maintenance. At each oil change I spray a full can of carb/intake cleaner thru the intake with motor running. I usually see dark gray moisture out the exhaust tips while doing this. I have just begun using the CRC DI cleaner - not sure if there is any benefit over regular carb/intake cleaners or not.
Have you ever replaced the plugs? Doesn't the intake need to be removed, and if so could you see the back of the intake valves?
I have replaced the plugs. The intake does not have to come off on the DI version of the 3.6. The SFI version you do need to loosen the intake and just lift it a few inches to remove 3 of the coils.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
134,000 miles on my 2008 CTS 3.6DI and no issues. While I have not peeked to see what my valves actually look like, I do my own little preventative maintenance. At each oil change I spray a full can of carb/intake cleaner thru the intake with motor running. I usually see dark gray moisture out the exhaust tips while doing this. I have just begun using the CRC DI cleaner - not sure if there is any benefit over regular carb/intake cleaners or not.
Have you ever replaced the plugs? Doesn't the intake need to be removed, and if so could you see the back of the intake valves?
I have replaced the plugs. The intake does not have to come off on the DI version of the 3.6. The SFI version you do need to loosen the intake and just lift it a few inches to remove 3 of the coils.
Originally Posted By: mctmatt
My understanding that the carbon that is built up on is on the back side of the valves for Direct Injection and spraying into the intake will not have any effect as it does not reach this area. I think the only real solution to rid the carbon is by removing the cover and blasting the valves clean or scrapping them clean. Either one can be expensive if done at a shop.
Going thru the intake does reach the valves but I agree a hands on cleaning will do much better than spraying a solution thru the intake. I just do it as a preventative measure. I don't know if it is beneficial or not, but I do know I've got over 130k miles with no issues. I may be atleast minimizing the problem. I guess I really need to go deep and look in there one day.
My understanding that the carbon that is built up on is on the back side of the valves for Direct Injection and spraying into the intake will not have any effect as it does not reach this area. I think the only real solution to rid the carbon is by removing the cover and blasting the valves clean or scrapping them clean. Either one can be expensive if done at a shop.
Going thru the intake does reach the valves but I agree a hands on cleaning will do much better than spraying a solution thru the intake. I just do it as a preventative measure. I don't know if it is beneficial or not, but I do know I've got over 130k miles with no issues. I may be atleast minimizing the problem. I guess I really need to go deep and look in there one day.
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
As I have stated before, BG makes a fogger machine that basically allows you to run the car on BG44K pumped in through the intake manifold.
We borescoped the valves to verify deposits. We ran the car for 30 minutes on this stupid machine and it didn't do a thing to 60k worth of valve deposits. Well, I take that back, it made them wet. Maybe if you ran the car for hours on the machine it would eventually break loose hard carbon chunks into your engine, but is that what you want? Never mind what a constant wash of solvents into your cylinder could do to ring lubrication...
We ended up pulling the manifold and doing a walnut blast on the valves. It is better to save your money and deal with intake deposits the correct way if or when you ever have to. DI deposits have less of an impact on performance in a forced induction car. Plenty of VW 2.0 owners have NEVER had a carbon cleaning. Are their valves dirty? Yes. Has it affected drivability? No.
SteveSRT8: once the deposits are on there no amount of hot-footing will remove them, though it does seems that more "enthusiastic" drivers tend to have less problems.
As they say, "a redline a day keeps the doctor away..."
While I have never seen a B&G product that damaged anything I can agree that the deposits are hard to remove once they get that baked on hardness that comes with many miles. I am sure the overwhelming majority of all DI vehicle owners get decent service out of their rigs, many folks are just going to work and could care less.
I thought it was VW or Mazda that stated periods of full throttle were beneficial. If so, my sig car is spotless!
As I have stated before, BG makes a fogger machine that basically allows you to run the car on BG44K pumped in through the intake manifold.
We borescoped the valves to verify deposits. We ran the car for 30 minutes on this stupid machine and it didn't do a thing to 60k worth of valve deposits. Well, I take that back, it made them wet. Maybe if you ran the car for hours on the machine it would eventually break loose hard carbon chunks into your engine, but is that what you want? Never mind what a constant wash of solvents into your cylinder could do to ring lubrication...
We ended up pulling the manifold and doing a walnut blast on the valves. It is better to save your money and deal with intake deposits the correct way if or when you ever have to. DI deposits have less of an impact on performance in a forced induction car. Plenty of VW 2.0 owners have NEVER had a carbon cleaning. Are their valves dirty? Yes. Has it affected drivability? No.
SteveSRT8: once the deposits are on there no amount of hot-footing will remove them, though it does seems that more "enthusiastic" drivers tend to have less problems.
As they say, "a redline a day keeps the doctor away..."
While I have never seen a B&G product that damaged anything I can agree that the deposits are hard to remove once they get that baked on hardness that comes with many miles. I am sure the overwhelming majority of all DI vehicle owners get decent service out of their rigs, many folks are just going to work and could care less.
I thought it was VW or Mazda that stated periods of full throttle were beneficial. If so, my sig car is spotless!
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