Honda Civic/Accord Timing Belt vs Chain?

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maverickfhs

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For either of Civic/Accords, which one is better in terms of Timing Belt vs Timing chain?

Is there a difference in life of the engine/vehicle? Provided regular engine oil changes with proper grade oil and as a commuter car.

Is one's maintenance difficult over the other? I know TB requires periodic maintenance, some civics/accords 60k and newer ones 90-120K range or 7 years. Can timing chains go well over 300k or no?

Thanks for the help.
 
Usually chains are a "lifetime part" although tension blocks or sliders can wear out.

Ive seen many cam in block designs make it 300K.

DOHC engines with feet and feet of chains typically wear out quicker than the shorter ones.

UD
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Usually chains are a "lifetime part" although tension blocks or sliders can wear out.

Ive seen many cam in block designs make it 300K.

DOHC engines with feet and feet of chains typically wear out quicker than the shorter ones.

UD



Thanks for your input and help.

What about SOHC with a timing chain, can timing chain make it to 300K with proper viscosity of good oil and Honda filter?

Should chain be preferred over a TB or that should not be the deciding factor? Thanks
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
chain foiled my '03 K24 @200k


Thanks, can you please elaborate? Was engine completely shot or?
 
When you've got a SOHC or DOHC engine with a timing chain, you've got plastic guides with the chain gliding over them which eventually wear out. Since the chain will be considerably longer than in an OHV engine, you've also got tensioner(s) to keep the chain against the guide(s).

At 200k, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a chain has some wear in its links to which it has become longer, guides are worn and or the internal spring in the tensioner is weak or broken which could make it make noise until it is hydraulically pumped up.

OHV timing chains being so short to go between the crank and cam, they'll last a long time. You may even round off the timing gear teeth before a chain wears.

Kinda wish my DOHC K-series was a belt. Be so much easier to maintain at 100k intervals. But unfortunately I'm looking at doing a chain now at 115k cause of a startup rattle. I'd rather just do belts at 100k.
 
I like timing belts. They require regular maintenance and you get hands on the belt, pullies, and tensioner.

Chains don't ever get normal looks, so you get chain stretch and worn guides. Hopefully you get a warning rattle before the engine skips time.
 
Originally Posted By: maverickfhs
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Usually chains are a "lifetime part" although tension blocks or sliders can wear out.

Ive seen many cam in block designs make it 300K.

DOHC engines with feet and feet of chains typically wear out quicker than the shorter ones.

UD



Thanks for your input and help.

What about SOHC with a timing chain, can timing chain make it to 300K with proper viscosity of good oil and Honda filter?

Should chain be preferred over a TB or that should not be the deciding factor? Thanks


In a street auto I vastly prefer a chain, as the variable becomes one of a absolutely real maintenance timeframe or a possible maintenance timeframe.

The timing belt in my Rx400H was over 1.2K in cost with new rollers and " while you are in there" water pump etc... etc.. -
Whereas my nissan and othe chain based product never needed anything past 200K when I dumped it.

Its very difficult to predict chain and tensioner life but often an inexpensive inspection can show how many teeth left on the tensioner which will indicate wear of either the chain or guides.

In very high performance engine Im going to tear into every 50 horus or so anyway - I prefer a belt as it does a better job of isolating harmonics from the valveltrain at sustained high RPM.



UD
 
Last edited:
Redhat, makes sense and I see what you mean to say about 100k mark maintenance! Can explain a bit about rattle noise? Does it only come during start up?

rooflessVW, yeah I agree with the inspection part of a Timing belt and also you can visually inspect all of them.
 
UD, I am specifically talking about an average street/commuter car.

So I guess, as long as vehicle has low miles and properly serviced, then timing chain would last longer and overall would be less expensive when compared with a TB?
 
Originally Posted By: maverickfhs
Originally Posted By: dblshock
chain foiled my '03 K24 @200k


Thanks, can you please elaborate? Was engine completely shot or?


cooked it, skipped a tooth replaced w/160k used $2200.00...I've been critical of TB but actually they make sense in an older motor..chain is murder on oil too.
 
Originally Posted By: maverickfhs
UD, I am specifically talking about an average street/commuter car.

So I guess, as long as vehicle has low miles and properly serviced, then timing chain would last longer and overall would be less expensive when compared with a TB?



Almost always.
 
Chain is almost always lower cost.

Startup rattle is very easy to hear and it occurs during the first cold start of a day when there is chain and tensioner wear and the hydraulically actuated tensioners are bled down and need to come up to pressure to remove slack.

Some better tensioners (like 3.5 ecoboost ones) have a ratchet type mechanism that locks once a tooth is used up that makes chain slap a non issue - until youve used up all the teeth.

Its a very pronounced sound and once you've heard it you'll know it forever and be able to pick it out in any vehicle.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Originally Posted By: maverickfhs
Originally Posted By: dblshock
chain foiled my '03 K24 @200k


Thanks, can you please elaborate? Was engine completely shot or?


cooked it, skipped a tooth replaced w/160k used $2200.00...I've been critical of TB but actually they make sense in an older motor..chain is murder on oil too.


Dang, that's not fun man!
 
Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Both types have had excellent/good/louse implementations.
When buying brand new or with low mileage and without any known defects, I would prefer a timing chain because with regular maintenance and proper oil level a timing chain is a lifetime component.
When buying used, a TB has an advantage in the fact that it is not affected by OCIs or oil level and can always be changed at a reasonable cost.
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Chain is almost always lower cost.

Startup rattle is very easy to hear and it occurs during the first cold start of a day when there is chain and tensioner wear and the hydraulically actuated tensioners are bled down and need to come up to pressure to remove slack.

Some better tensioners (like 3.5 ecoboost ones) have a ratchet type mechanism that locks once a tooth is used up that makes chain slap a non issue - until youve used up all the teeth.

Its a very pronounced sound and once you've heard it you'll know it forever and be able to pick it out in any vehicle.



Thanks UD, very clear and helpful explanation. Can you please point me to a youtube video where I can actually hear it? Just for my own learning and knowledge sake.

Thanks again.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
When buying brand new or with low mileage and without any known defects, I would prefer a timing chain because with regular maintenance and proper oil level a timing chain is a lifetime component.
When buying used, a TB has an advantage in the fact that it is not affected by OCIs or oil level and can always be changed at a reasonable cost.


True dat, that can be a rule of thumb for me, moving forward. Thanks, that's helpful.
 
Originally Posted By: maverickfhs
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Chain is almost always lower cost.

Startup rattle is very easy to hear and it occurs during the first cold start of a day when there is chain and tensioner wear and the hydraulically actuated tensioners are bled down and need to come up to pressure to remove slack.

Some better tensioners (like 3.5 ecoboost ones) have a ratchet type mechanism that locks once a tooth is used up that makes chain slap a non issue - until youve used up all the teeth.

Its a very pronounced sound and once you've heard it you'll know it forever and be able to pick it out in any vehicle.



Thanks UD, very clear and helpful explanation. Can you please point me to a youtube video where I can actually hear it? Just for my own learning and knowledge sake.

Thanks again.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR7tyh5FJu8

Here an ecoboost exhibiting the problem sound - pre fix.

UD
 
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