BMW Twin Power Turbo - 0W-20 LL-14+

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Withholding a certification from a competitor...

Where are we seeing this, though?

I never said it necessarily was happening. I identified it as a scenario, and posited that, if it was happening, then it quite likely runs afoul of antitrust laws like the Sherman Act and other FTC rules. However, circumstantial evidence gives rise to reasonable speculation that such is the case. Again, all of the evidence and circumstances lead us to reasonably believe that BMW's branded oil is Shell oil, yet none of Shell's oil has received the LL14FE certification, even though Shell is the supplier and manufacturer of BMW's branded oil. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider this a bit odd.

Why it is odd? Shell will make whatever BMW wants from them per their contract.
Maybe Shell thinks that there is still small number of BMW's that require that spec. to make that oil under their name not BMW< and be profitable.

 

[MateoTorgy]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Withholding a certification from a competitor...

Where are we seeing this, though?

I never said it necessarily was happening. I identified it as a scenario, and posited that, if it was happening, then it quite likely runs afoul of antitrust laws like the Sherman Act and other FTC rules. However, circumstantial evidence gives rise to reasonable speculation that such is the case. Again, all of the evidence and circumstances lead us to reasonably believe that BMW's branded oil is Shell oil, yet none of Shell's oil has received the LL14FE certification, even though Shell is the supplier and manufacturer of BMW's branded oil. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider this a bit odd.

Why it is odd? Shell will make whatever BMW wants from them per their contract.
Maybe Shell thinks that there is still small number of BMW's that require that spec. to make that oil under their name not BMW< and be profitable.


Maybe.

 

[MateoTorgy]

I'm switching to Motul 8100 5W-40.

 

[1JZ_E46]

In my opinion, BMW is not allowing Pennzoil to retail their "Euro" line of oils with a Longlife approval, so as long as BMW is offering that oil in their "TwinPower" Turbo offering (at least for LL-01). For example, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 does not contain LL-01 approval even though BMW's version is LL-01 approved. And while Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-30 does have LL-01 approval, it is not available for retail consumers. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40, however, does contain LL-01 approval, but note that BMW does not offer a 5W-40 TwinPower Turbo oil. Oddly enough, though, both BMW's and Pennzoil's LL-04 5W-30 oils have LL-04 approval and are available to consumers. Who knows!

On an unrelated note, does anyone else make an LL-01 FE oil other than BMW?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
I'm switching to Motul 8100 5W-40.


0W-20 to a 5W-40 is quite the jump. I would probably find something in the middle, such as EDGE 0W-30 A3/B4.

 

[MateoTorgy]

Duly noted sir. I was hoping to find an ester (group 5) blend. Isn't Edge Euro Blend group 3?

The problem with the lower weight oil is that it rarely satisfies A3/B4 (>3.5). Oddly enough, the 340's manual calls for 0W-20 or, alternatively, 0W-40 or 5W-30 as long as it has A3/B4. Yet the prescribed oil (OW-20 LL14FE) is A1/B1.

I don't know... I guess I could start drinking the BITOG Kool Aid (PP).

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Duly noted sir. I was hoping to find an ester (group 5) blend. Isn't Edge Euro Blend group 3?

The problem with the lower weight oil is that it rarely satisfies A3/B4 (>3.5). Oddly enough, the 340's manual calls for 0W-20 or, alternatively, 0W-40 or 5W-30 as long as it has A3/B4. Yet the prescribed oil (OW-20 LL14FE) is A1/B1.

I don't know... I guess I could start drinking the BITOG Kool Aid (PP).


Group 5 based oils are essentially non-existent outside of racing oils from brands like Torco, Motul, and Redline. Even Redline is mostly PAO with some ester.

Castrol Edge 0W-30 is a blend of PAO and Group III. http://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersds...le/11101802.pdf
As is Castrol EDGE 0W-40.

 

[MateoTorgy]

Thank you!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Duly noted sir. I was hoping to find an ester (group 5) blend. Isn't Edge Euro Blend group 3?

The problem with the lower weight oil is that it rarely satisfies A3/B4 (>3.5). Oddly enough, the 340's manual calls for 0W-20 or, alternatively, 0W-40 or 5W-30 as long as it has A3/B4. Yet the prescribed oil (OW-20 LL14FE) is A1/B1.

I don't know... I guess I could start drinking the BITOG Kool Aid (PP).

Both Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 are 50%+ PAO.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
I never said it necessarily was happening. I identified it as a scenario, and posited that, if it was happening, then it quite likely runs afoul of antitrust laws like the Sherman Act and other FTC rules. However, circumstantial evidence gives rise to reasonable speculation that such is the case. Again, all of the evidence and circumstances lead us to reasonably believe that BMW's branded oil is Shell oil, yet none of Shell's oil has received the LL14FE certification, even though Shell is the supplier and manufacturer of BMW's branded oil. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider this a bit odd.

That would only apply if Shell refused to certify the oil to other oil companies, and we've seen no evidence of that. Shell has opted not to make a consumer version of the dealer oil, which is not without precedent. When we see more vehicles calling for this viscosity and specification, we'll see more options on the shelf.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

This talk is silly. Shell will NEVER EVER EVER EVER sell in the US an oil that has the same weight and specification as the oil they supply BMWNA. That's just how it works.

 

[Garak]

At least up here, they do sell a 5w-30 A3/B4 with LL-01 on the shelf, and they seem to do so at the dealer, too. If they stop, Castrol always does, and Wakefield will gladly take the shelf space.

 

[Flying_A]

This is not uncommon... Just look at the Catrol OE Professional line of oils. Can't be purchased anywhere besides the OE dealer by contract.

Shell will eventually roll out a Pennzoil product once the volume is at a certain figure but in the meantime plenty of other brands will offer an option.

 

[terminaldegree]

Not sure if it's relevant to the conversation, but since there's relatively little info on this site about available oils in the US, I was able to source some Fuchs Titan GT1 EVO 0w-20 that meets the LL-14 FE+ spec, and it was slightly less expensive than the BMW/Mini branded equivalent. Factory fill on my Mini, per sticker under the hood is now a 0w-20, as previously reported.

Given BMW's history with extended drains and occasional reputation for expensive after-warranty engine issues, I was uncomfortable leaving in the factory fill for 10k+ miles. The CBS service icon on my dash is suggesting the first oil change should happen at 12,000 miles!

It's a very different animal than changing the 15w-40 HDEO in the boat...this stuff is almost the consistency of water, pouring into the crankcase.