Add Moly to HDEO? Yeah or Nay?

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Just like the title says, should I, or better, would it be a benefit to add moly to a 2007 Ford 6.0L diesel?

I've noticed that HDEO oils do not contain much moly. Is that to meet a certain spec? I know that HDEO oils are often used in wet clutch situations on powersports equipment, used it there myself. My concern is that moly may somehow be detrimental to the engine, possible because of the heat generated in the turbo. Otherwise I generally like moly to reduce friction and often choose oil that has a high amount in it.

The engine in question is developing a bit of cold start romp that these engines are known for. The common solution is REV-X. I was just exploring other possible solutions.

Thanks.
 
5W40 fixed it in my '04 6.0 PSD-new injectors, batteries, new IPR, & new FICM had almost no effect. 10W30 should also help, but I never tried it (it was less common when I had the van).
 
No on the Moly in an HDEO. The main reason that most HDEO's aren't heavy on Moly content is concern over it attacking the bronze piston pin bushings and bronze cam follower axles. This is mostly a concern on big truck engines, and I don't know if your 6.0L engine is so equipped.
 
Yes you can. The popular stiction adds (Rev-X, HotShots) have moly and boron as basic ingredients. But, Valvoline 10w30 and Lubegard Biotech did most of the heavy lifting on curing romp for me. The FICM rebuild and Atlas tune from ficmrepair finished it off. Motorcraft diesel oil shows a dose of boron. Maybe they knew something all along to keep the injectors happy. Delo has both boron and moly in the LE formula.
 
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It would be preferable to use an oil already formulated with the additives you've mentioned vs. adding. You could go through the HDEO UOA section and compare samples with the higher Boron to help narrow your choices.
 
Originally Posted By: Ohle_Manezzini
Bronze piston pin bushings and bronze cam followers in Diesel engines, eh?

MoS2 attacks bronze?


Yes, bronze piston pin bushings and cam follower AXLES in heavy duty diesel engines.
Cummins had a spate of problems with piston pin bushing wear in the early 90's, and attributed it to moly in the oil. Believe it or not as you please.
 
I've used LubriMoly MoS2 in my 6.0 with great results. Does the same thing as RevX or Archoil at a fraction of the cost. Honestly I tried MotorCraft 10W30 this OCI with a bottle of Archoil and my truck isn't nearly as smooth running and easy starting as it was with Delo and MoS2.

I'll certainly be going back to Delo and a dose of moly in all Future OCI's!
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I've used LubriMoly MoS2 in my 6.0 with great results. Does the same thing as RevX or Archoil at a fraction of the cost. Honestly I tried MotorCraft 10W30 this OCI with a bottle of Archoil and my truck isn't nearly as smooth running and easy starting as it was with Delo and MoS2.

I'll certainly be going back to Delo and a dose of moly in all Future OCI's!



I drained 20ozs of oil Sunday and added 20 ozs of LubriMoly MoS2. Am running Maxima HD Diesel 15w40 oil. So far the results are good, noticeably smoother at idle. Just a hint of romp at sub 40* start. I will continue to run this for the rest of the OCI, about 3,500 miles and do a UOA. I have the results from the previous change with Delvac 1 ESP to compare it with.

Thanks for the info guys.
 
To my mind, the reason HDDO's don't contain Moly is because traditionally they don't have to meet as high a oxidation performance requirement as PCMO's.

For reasons I never quite fathomed (or more honestly couldn't be arsed to investigate), diesel engines don't oxidise oils like gasoline engines do. Run any oil hard and hot on a gasoline engine and sooner or later the oil will oxidise and the oil's viscosity will increase exponentially; sometimes to a point where it's too thick to measure (usually greater than 4,000 cst at 100°C). Do the same thing on a diesel engine and yes, the viscosity of the oil will increase but it increases much more linearly and generally correlates with the amount of soot held up in the oil. Diesel engines just don't seem to oxidise base oils. It might sound bizarre, but the oxidation performance of an HDDO is set by running the HDDO on a gasoline engine (like the Sequence IIIF test) and this test tends to lag behind what's in the PCMO spec. If you have a lower oxidation threshold to meet, you don't necessarily need to use the higher (aka more expensive) antioxidants like Moly.

I hadn't heard about Moly causing diesel bearing corrosion but I can believe it. That said, I've used Moly in HDDO and it has happily passed the HTCBT (High Temperature Corrosion Bench Test).

To my mind, the question is not so much, can you add Moly to HDDO? but more one of WHY would you want to? As an antioxidant, it's not really needed. As an anti-wear it might work but you are allowed a high level of ZDDP in HDDO's and ZDDP is far cheaper. As a friction modifier it might do something but when so much of global HDDO is still 15W40 why would you bother?
 
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The oil of choice for my equipment is Deere Plus 50 II 10w-30/15w-40, it generally has around 300 ppm of moly per sample which is more than most HDEO samples I've looked at.
 
This mornings thoughts are, I think by adding Moly to a Formulated HEDO simply turns the HEDO into an Ordinary gasoline API oil.

Again, mornings thoughts as Moly is a metal, HEDOs are oils designed to keep piston, piston rings, combustion chambers as free from deposits as possible.
Anyway, just unsure why someone would want to alter a scientifically produced HEDO API rated oil with an unscientific theory.

:eek:) ...
 
Thanks for sharing.

I read the John Deere blurb and was surprised to see this stuff contains Molybdenum Disulphide. Maybe this is me being away from the coalface for too long but I would have thought most professional oil formulators would avoid MoS2 like the plague. Organic, liquid, full oil-soluble Molys (like MoDTC) yes but a solid dispersed lubricant?...I know I would never touch it.

It's not that I've ever seen any concrete evidence to say MoS2 is bad. It's just that solids do funny things. They dump out when you aren't looking. They block filters. They rely on other additives to keep them dispersed begging the question what happens when those additives deplete.

I'm sure the John Deere oil is fine. It's just not what I would have expected.
 
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Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Thanks for sharing.

I read the John Deere blurb and was surprised to see this stuff contains Molybdenum Disulphide. Maybe this is me being away from the coalface for too long but I would have thought most professional oil formulators would avoid MoS2 like the plague. Organic, liquid, full oil-soluble Molys (like MoDTC) yes but a solid dispersed lubricant?...I know I would never touch it.

It's not that I've ever seen any concrete evidence to say MoS2 is bad. It's just that solids do funny things. They dump out when you aren't looking. They block filters. They rely on other additives to keep them dispersed begging the question what happens when those additives deplete.

I'm sure the John Deere oil is fine. It's just not what I would have expected.


The Lubrimoly MoS2 has been around quite awhile and is one of the best additives out there according to many, myself included. Its so fine it doesn't clog filters, it stays suspended pretty well and miraculously quiets down some engines its put in. It truly is one additive that seems to work. No snake oil here. I've never heard of a single negative remark or consequence using it.
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Thanks for sharing.

I read the John Deere blurb and was surprised to see this stuff contains Molybdenum Disulphide. Maybe this is me being away from the coalface for too long but I would have thought most professional oil formulators would avoid MoS2 like the plague. Organic, liquid, full oil-soluble Molys (like MoDTC) yes but a solid dispersed lubricant?...I know I would never touch it.

It's not that I've ever seen any concrete evidence to say MoS2 is bad. It's just that solids do funny things. They dump out when you aren't looking. They block filters. They rely on other additives to keep them dispersed begging the question what happens when those additives deplete.

I'm sure the John Deere oil is fine. It's just not what I would have expected.


The Lubrimoly MoS2 has been around quite awhile and is one of the best additives out there according to many, myself included. Its so fine it doesn't clog filters, it stays suspended pretty well and miraculously quiets down some engines its put in. It truly is one additive that seems to work. No snake oil here. I've never heard of a single negative remark or consequence using it.



I see that the John Deere Plus-50 II carries a lot of approvals; API SJ, SL, SM, CG-4, CH-4, CJ-4, CI-4, CI-4 Plus, etc. I genuinely wonder how many of the expensive engine tests used to obtain these approvals were run using oils that actually contained MoS2? I'm happy to be proved wrong but my guess would be none. In which case these approvals, in the absence of any Level II support (which I also doubt exists) would be made void by top-treating with MoS2.

This may or may not be important to end-users. After all it's a John Deere oil, approved specifically by John Deere who presumably stand behind their product. However John Deere almost certainly don't do fundamental oil development or run their own engine test programs. They will buy this in and then tweak it how they see fit. Like all oil suppliers, they rely on official approvals to convince you of the 'goodness' of their oil. I just question whether this use of official approvals for a MoS2 treated oil is correct in this case.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe

I read the John Deere blurb and was surprised to see this stuff contains Molybdenum Disulphide. Maybe this is me being away from the coalface for too long but I would have thought most professional oil formulators would avoid MoS2 like the plague. Organic, liquid, full oil-soluble Molys (like MoDTC) yes but a solid dispersed lubricant?...I know I would never touch it.


Could you post a link to this blurb? I find no mention of MoS2 in any literature I pull up from JD on this oil that mentions Mo of any kind.

Like you, I don't believe that MoS2 would be used. No CJ-4 oil with a sulfated ash of 1.0 designed for use in engines with particulate filters is going to be formulated with MoS2.

Since roadrunner1 uses it, he could answer the question for us. Is the oil clear and amber colored when new? If so, it does not contain MoS2.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe

I read the John Deere blurb and was surprised to see this stuff contains Molybdenum Disulphide. Maybe this is me being away from the coalface for too long but I would have thought most professional oil formulators would avoid MoS2 like the plague. Organic, liquid, full oil-soluble Molys (like MoDTC) yes but a solid dispersed lubricant?...I know I would never touch it.


Could you post a link to this blurb? I find no mention of MoS2 in any literature I pull up from JD on this oil that mentions Mo of any kind.

Like you, I don't believe that MoS2 would be used. No CJ-4 oil with a sulfated ash of 1.0 designed for use in engines with particulate filters is going to be formulated with MoS2.

Since roadrunner1 uses it, he could answer the question for us. Is the oil clear and amber colored when new? If so, it does not contain MoS2.

Ed


Well the Plus 50 II is far from clear/amber, it is very dark when new. I remember my dad asking me when I started using it back in the early 90's why I was putting dirty oil back into an engine. I can't answer the reasoning for it, I only have my UOA data telling me the moly/boron ppm.
 
Oh dear. Time for me to eat a big slice of Humble Pie...

So there's a John Deere Oil Guide PDF you can find on Google called DKD1801OilGuide.pdf. I don't know how you do links to PDFs but I'm sure you can find it.

It contains details of the John Deere Plus-50 II range of HDDO's which you said contained 300ppm of Moly. I typed Moly into the PDF and saw a couple of references to Molybdenum Disulphide. If I had bothered to look closer, I would have seen that this referred to John Deere GREASE! I don't know why but I put 2 and 2 together and got 5. Apologies to one and all. If there is Moly in the Plus-50 II, then it's almost certainly the oil soluble variety and not MoS2.

Will pop to the doctor's tomorrow to see if I'm terminally OLD+.
 
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