Japan pushes for Hydrogen Vehicles for Olympics...

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Well with two hydrogen vehicles being introduced in California now there's no reason but for the infrastructure to supply the gas or the generators for home production.
Read last week of a plant to produce the fuel cells in Michigan for two car manufactures.
Its here and has been around but goverments in the US are trying to figure alternative taxes as fuel taxes pay for road repair and construction. Already complaining about EVs.
In spring 2005 Nissan was showing off their fuel cell pickup and the 8 foot parabolic mirror for home generation of hydrogen and they said they could produce the entire setup cheaper than its gasoline powered truck. Even could plug truck into home electrical system if power grid was peaking or out. So they were fighting three major entities in getting it to main stream. Government taxing issue, power company loosing load and oil companies loosing their customers at the gas pump.
With pond scum being a way to feed-consume the CO2 and its ability to be a feed stock after extraction of oil. Arab states are already under major pressure as they loose the cash cow.
Was talking to an Exxon employee that they were pulling back plans in Saudi because of the natives loosing all the oil welfare and are restless.
 
again with the 8 foot parabolic mirror...how much hydrogen (or vehicle miles) is that going to make ? (you forgot to answer that the other day).

loose ?

or lose ?
 
Duluth, 8 foot solar collector give 20KWh (average) available solar energy per day.

Convert that to electricity a say 25% gives 5KWh, or 18MJ...0.13 gallons of gas equivalent. Before you factor in the hydrogen conversion efficiency, and then pump it up to some usefull pressure.

That's why Japan (Kawasaki hydrogen highway) is looking at lignite (brown coal) for Japan's hydrogen needs...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Duluth, 8 foot solar collector give 20KWh (average) available solar energy per day.

Convert that to electricity a say 25% gives 5KWh, or 18MJ...0.13 gallons of gas equivalent. Before you factor in the hydrogen conversion efficiency, and then pump it up to some usefull pressure.

That's why Japan (Kawasaki hydrogen highway) is looking at lignite (brown coal) for Japan's hydrogen needs...
Total bachelor of Arts idiot here. How big a collector would be needed to give the equivalent of 15 gallons of gasoline a day? How much green algae would be needed to create 15 gallons of gasoline?
 
Unfortunately my house had a fire with my download of all the info shortly after the showing on GMA in spring 2005. Nissan alluded to that it would more than provide the average needs of the vehicle for I think an hour of driving plus. Now if one could use off peak electric too?
 
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Originally Posted By: andyd
Total bachelor of Arts idiot here. How big a collector would be needed to give the equivalent of 15 gallons of gasoline a day? How much green algae would be needed to create 15 gallons of gasoline?


Excuse me for crossing units, but a gallon of Gasoline contains 132MJ of energy. 1KwH contains 3.6MJ, so you need 36 of them to match the energy content of a gallon of Gasoline.

Go here
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/serve.cgi

and you can see how many KWh a square meter can collect in a day (that's what falls, then you have to convert it a whatever the efficiency of your collector is.

Electrical equivalent to gallons of gas isn't really that fair in one way, as the engine burns at 20% efficiency give or take while electric motors are in the 90s...but then the solar collection efficiency is only 20% anyway.

So that 8' collector is 4.7 square meters, would be exposed to 4-5Kwh per day (average), and harvest it at a generous 25%..gets 5.25KWh.

A Tesla Model S would go 21 miles on that, and it's about state of the art...throw in converting to hydrogen, and you get even less, as each intermediate step loses energy.

Just for giggles, go to the solar map, and see what you get from an 8' panel in Winter in Marshfield.
 
Here's a post on another forum from a guy that I worked with quite a lot over the years.

Quote:
Attended symposium in Tokyo today hosted by JSME: "Forefront of Initiatives Towards a Hydrogen Society". Detailed estimates show zero-CO2 power generation from hydrogen estimated at 16.0yen/kWh.
This compares favourably with other technologies and energy types (as per my earlier post...)
Nuclear 10.1yen/kWh
Coal 12.3yen/kWh
LNG with CCGT 13.7yen/kWh
Onshore wind 21.6yen/kWh
PV solar (megawatt scale) 24.2yen/kWh

Cost estimate is based on:
- industrial scale (770t/day production, equiv to 3 million fuel cell vehicles or 1GW power generation)
- H2 power gen using gas turbine combined cycle
- H2 derived from gasification of Latrobe Valley brown coal, with CCS through CarbonNet nearby


Interesting that the Latrobe Valley is the demon of the green movement for it's brown coal fired power stations (Hazelwood IS an abomination in the 21st century mind you)...but turning the coal into hydrogen is green.

The Kawasaki information is completely lacking on efficincies of conversions and processes, so I can't do analysis on whether burning it to electricity or part burning it to syngas makes any more or less sense.
 
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