Does it pay to keep older cars?

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I get a weekly circular, I see amazing lease deals like a subaru imprezza (or even an outback) in the 200-250 range/mo out the door, no hidden stuff. Even if it is is a few bucks more a month it seems like a good deal. These cars keep their value so the leases are less. Probably cars with few options, but today even the base model is quite loaded.

Then I think of my older cars, I do pretty much all the repairs on them and I just pay for parts at the lowest price. The explorer needed a complete exhaust system, including cats, and paid a bit over $500 for parts with the rebates and lowest prices I could get. Estimates for this work were in the $1500-$1800 range. Even the stupid coil I just replaced, 40 bucks for me but if someone had to bring it to the dealer in its $170. Even in an Indy it would probably be $120-$150, because they would mark up the part to retail. And there are many other nickel and dime repairs these cars need - Even a trans fluid flush is $80-$100 in materials (filter/fluid, etc). I don't think the repairs on the explorer are crazy compared to even newer cars, but I also know that even though the trans is meticulously maintained there is a always a risk of total failure due to its design.


The other thing is putting parts in a 20yo car does nothing for its value - you could have a brand new moog front end, new brake lines and hoses, new calipers, new ford radiator, new this, that and it is worth the same as someones neglected POS.

Most shops also make you leave the car for a day(or more for some things), so you have to make arrangements. So whether you do the repair yourself or bring it in there is a time factor as well.

Granted, sometimes I may go a year or two without repairs, but something like the Subaru deal comes close in pocketbook and time factor to keeping an old clunker on the road. Am I missing something here?
 
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Back in the 90s people were telling my dad to sell off what is currently my Ford Capri as in those times they were worth very little.
Now 20 years on the people at my local Ford dealer the guys who still work there say how glad they are that the car is still in the family, and that they are glad my dad din't follow their advice to sell it.
The price for these cars has now risen 400% in 3 years.
If you really like a car, ofcourse it's worth keeping it going
 
You need to look at what your cars have cost you, IN TOTAL over their lifetime.
Gas, maintenance, repairs, insurance and registration.

Then compare that with what a 3 year lease would run (in total), and doing that every 3 years would be.

If you don't drive more than 12k per year, maybe a lease is worthwhile. Usually they are not cheaper than purchasing a vehicle, let alone keeping an old one running.
 
I think there is a sweet spot in car ownership. If you can get a car that is a few years(3-5 years) old with low mileage and pay cash. Then drive it for 5 years or until it needs major stuff. Sell it and repeat. With this model you aren't driving a POS that needs constant work yet you are buying slightly used saving on initial depreciation and its still young so it doesn't need much work over the ownership period.

I think what you buy also makes a difference. Something with a timing chain instead of belt cuts down on maintenance, a 4x4 truck is going to take more maintenance than a Toyota Camry etc.
 
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Originally Posted By: Huie83
I think there is a sweet spot in car ownership. If you can get a car that is a few years(3-5 years) old with low mileage and pay cash. Then drive it for 5 years or until it needs major stuff. Sell it and repeat. With this model you aren't driving a POS that needs constant work yet you are buying slightly used saving on initial depreciation and its still young so it doesn't need much work over the ownership period.

I think what you buy also makes a difference. Something with a timing chain instead of belt cuts down on maintenance etc.


But then if the chain stretches or whatever it's a much bigger job to change a chain than a belt.
 
I've definitely subscribed to buying used cars with cash and driving them into the ground. I think it comes out way cheaper than buying new or leasing, even with the occasional repair. With proper maintenance and a little luck, you can have a car go a very long time without needing a repair.

Shops wanted $300-500 to replace the heater temperature door actuator in my Monte Carlo. I replaced it for $25 for the new AC Delco part and one hour of my time after watching a youtube video. Stuff like that can really help.
 
Originally Posted By: Huie83
I think there is a sweet spot in car ownership. If you can get a car that is a few years(3-5 years) old with low mileage and pay cash. Then drive it for 5 years or until it needs major stuff. Sell it and repeat. With this model you aren't driving a POS that needs constant work yet you are buying slightly used saving on initial depreciation and its still young so it doesn't need much work over the ownership period.

I think what you buy also makes a difference. Something with a timing chain instead of belt cuts down on maintenance, a 4x4 truck is going to take more maintenance than a Toyota Camry etc.



Very sound advice. I don't strictly follow this model, mine is 8-10 years- buying used with less miles or full maintenance history.

Our area has inspections and emissions, on an old POS( as I used to have a 20 years old car), you have to freak out every year, plus there's always a running maintenance cost associated with it.

Also, I do stuff on my own and every weekend was always occupied with work on the car. Hence I got rid of the car, due to all reasons mentioned and living a happy life
thumbsup2.gif


P.S: I would always worry about putting $300-$400 worth of tires, $100 of alignment and any major suspension components, since it might break and will lose all money.
 
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted By: Huie83
I think there is a sweet spot in car ownership. If you can get a car that is a few years(3-5 years) old with low mileage and pay cash. Then drive it for 5 years or until it needs major stuff. Sell it and repeat. With this model you aren't driving a POS that needs constant work yet you are buying slightly used saving on initial depreciation and its still young so it doesn't need much work over the ownership period.

I think what you buy also makes a difference. Something with a timing chain instead of belt cuts down on maintenance etc.


But then if the chain stretches or whatever it's a much bigger job to change a chain than a belt.


Just curious, for my own knowledge. If there's proper engine oil lubrication and oil changes along with driven normally(not like a maniac), can it still stretch?
 
If perpetual car payment is your thing go for it, but it sure as heck is not cheaper. Of course every vehicle will eventually reach a point where it needs constant attention, but most will have a period of about 8-10 years after the warranty runs out, where they need very little repairs, just maintenance. That's where you save the most. After this period runs out and the cost of repairs starts to climb, it usually makes sense to look for something new again.
 
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I drive too much for a lease. My experience has been, it's a lot cheaper to fix em than buyin em.
 
Depends on where you live.

If you live in an Albany NY, or Ontario, Canada geography where winters are very cold (I have seen -40C on my car thermometer read out) and they use huge amounts of road salt, anything over 12 years old just goes to heck in terms of appearance and reliability. At that point, imo, it is very easy to justify considering a new vehicle.
If you are talking say, southern California or some island off of Spain, those are non-issues and a 20 year life should be easy given routine maintenance is done.

Let's keep it in perspective.

Note that Ford is no longer stocking parts for vehicles older than 10 years old. If you need something for a Ford that is dealer specific like an engine harness, good luck. Just went through that for one of our 2007 E350 Ford work trucks.
 
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My personal experience has been that keeping a paid-off older car is less expensive. I would suggest it would be extremely rare to see the math work out in favour of a new car with financing or lease payments.

With that said, your point about the convenience of less frequent parts failures in a newer vehicle is valid. However, when a new vehicle is under warranty, you're at the mercy of the dealer's service department to get it fixed. One of the Ford Tauruses in our fleet has seen headlight module and steering rack failures, which each took a couple weeks for the dealer to source parts. I can say I've never encountered such a delay when paying cash for a repair at my independent mechanic, or fixing something myself.
 
I bought a my 1st. new car in 1971, my 2nd. in 1979. I drove them until they were rusted out hulks, then parted them out. I'm partial to Chrysler minivans. We bought the 8th. one last March. I pay cash and save a lot of $$$ on interest payments.

In case your wondering, I bought my first car in 1954 when I was 16 y/o.

Being able to repair my own cars, has allowed me to drive better cars for less money.
 
Ford46,

I see those same lease deals in the paper and yes they look great and for many they are a great deal , but I also see that one time payment at time of possession can range from $2000 and up for all the paper work and other items plus you are required to carry more liability of at least $300k on most lease then there is the limit on mileage and the price per mile should you go over that amount. Those are things to consider but as I said for some people it still is a good deal for others it might not be. I do know that I have two older cars that I drive and I have no monthly payments. The trick or at least for me is that I try to do preventive maintenance which gives me more control of when money should be spent and avoiding being hit with a surprise later down the road. If your willing to take on the task of doing some of the small maintenance items such as the transmission fluid, radiator flush, fluid exchanges, hose and belt replacements you will be surprised of the savings and for me it does add value to my used car as it keeps it running like new and I do maintain the interior and exterior to the point that I have had several offers from others asking if I would like to sale one of my cars. The money that I would be spending on a monthly payment for a new car goes straight into my savings account and since I have not had a car payment in 6 years that is very helpful and when it is time to purchase another car I will use those funds to help with my next purchase.
 
1 - Find a nice car, used or new, that meets your aesthetic, ergonomic, and performance needs, at a good price.
2 - Buy an appropriate service manual, familiarize yourself with the mechanical quirks of the cars engine, and research common issues and procedures.
3 - Properly maintain said car, mechanically and physically, and address mechanical issues right when they happen, rather than after things have gone pear-shaped.

4 - Enjoy your car for a long time, knowing you aren't on the hook for $100's every month.

... At least that's how I roll. I plan on keeping my Fusion for many years, and hundreds of thousands of miles. I do just about all my own maintenance, and I enjoy doing it. I let the local DT do anything related to tires/rotations, but that's free.
 
Lots of great answers.

Rust is a big problem, and now i'm using lots of paint and fluid film to keep it in check. That could be an issue keeping cars up north. The Lincoln has some rocker panel rust.

I have to say though the Grand Marquis is an extremely good value in a used car.

Bought with 125K for 800$. I put $800 into it(Intake manifold, and all the rest was maintenancer, tires, brakes, etc, which may even be required for lease). I put heated seats in and $20 to fix some trim piece on the shiftier.

The last repair was a starter, not even convinced it was bad, may have been terminal corrosion but there was no way to check because they twisted off. OK, $100. Exhaust is still good.

No rust and the tan paint still shines up.


Runs better than a new car. Idles so smooth that I forgot it was on the other day and turned the key. There is a town upstate NY that has a fleet of taxis, mostly MGMs but some CVs and TC, they are definitely 98-04 (most have the dish RWD offset wheels, so you can tell the generation). Some of those cars are pushing 500K.
 
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Originally Posted By: ford46guy
I get a weekly circular, I see amazing lease deals like a subaru imprezza (or even an outback) in the 200-250 range/mo out the door, no hidden stuff. Even if it is is a few bucks more a month it seems like a good deal. These cars keep their value so the leases are less. Probably cars with few options, but today even the base model is quite loaded.

Then I think of my older cars, I do pretty much all the repairs on them and I just pay for parts at the lowest price. The explorer needed a complete exhaust system, including cats, and paid a bit over $500 for parts with the rebates and lowest prices I could get. Estimates for this work were in the $1500-$1800 range. Even the stupid coil I just replaced, 40 bucks for me but if someone had to bring it to the dealer in its $170. Even in an Indy it would probably be $120-$150, because they would mark up the part to retail. And there are many other nickel and dime repairs these cars need - Even a trans fluid flush is $80-$100 in materials (filter/fluid, etc). I don't think the repairs on the explorer are crazy compared to even newer cars, but I also know that even though the trans is meticulously maintained there is a always a risk of total failure due to its design.

The other thing is putting parts in a 20yo car does nothing for its value - you could have a brand new moog front end, new brake lines and hoses, new calipers, new ford radiator, new this, that and it is worth the same as someones neglected POS.

Most shops also make you leave the car for a day(or more for some things), so you have to make arrangements. So whether you do the repair yourself or bring it in there is a time factor as well.

Granted, sometimes I may go a year or two without repairs, but something like the Subaru deal comes close in pocketbook and time factor to keeping an old clunker on the road. Am I missing something here?


Is that Impreza really going to replace your Explorer, though? Not if you need to haul/tow stuff or carry a bunch of people.
Leasing a vehicle that gives you the capability of the Explorer is going to be a lot more expensive, assuming that you really need it.

We bought a new Impreza for our daughter and it is a nice little car...and, I mean so little that I really can't get comfortable behind the wheel. Definitely a nice car for a 17 year old to take to school and drive her friends around in even when the weather gets a little dicey...although, we replaced the tires immediately with General RT43s so I wouldn't be worried sick about her driving in snow and on ice.
 
Originally Posted By: ford46guy
I see amazing lease deals


The only thing amazing about a "lease deal" is that someone would be foolish enough to get suckered into one. Unless the dealer is bragging that the lease deal is amazing for the dealership's profits.

Does it pay to keep older cars? In many cases it does. It all depends on your ability and desire to keep it maintained. I personally have a benchmark-if I wouldn't feel comfortable getting in any vehicle I own and driving anywhere in the US without a concern over a breakdown, then it's time to sell the vehicle.

We maintain a personal fund that we started many years ago by driving an older vehicle that was paid for, and putting what we would have spent on a monthly payment into the fund. That fund goes to the purchase of newer vehicles when one is needed, as well as maintenance and repairs on our current vehicles. When the fund gets large enough, we roll a portion of it over into other investments. It's much more fun watching our vehicle fund grow that it is to have a shiny new car in the garage every couple of years.
 
Depends on the car. It's not hard to find parts for 10 year old Toyota products. I took one Camry, now "semi retired" to 360K. People who simply want to rationalize another car loan millstone around their neck will use new wiper blades as a justification. Leases are often the worst deal of all. A car which holds it's value well may have a slightly lower lease cost but it's the lease company which has the benefit of a higher resale value. My concession is to always have my wife drive the newest car.
 
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Part of the issue behind keeping older cars is if they are reliable. The two cars in my sig both qualify as reliable, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to replace them. The 98 Civic since Jan 2013 has only had maintenance items (brakes, oil + transmission fluid; tires, etc.) done. The Sienna has had only maintenance work since June 2013, when rhodents chewed up some of my timing belt, so that really couldn't be blamed on Toyota.

On the other hand, if I were to be spending lots of time and money on non-maintenance repairs, I could very easily be persuaded to get a new(er) car.
 
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