German engines least reliable; Japanese at top

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Mercedes and others generally have lots of tech that can fail. Also if they're only going up to 2012, that probably covers the Mercedes M272 engine which came out in 2004 and up to about 2007 had bad balance shafts and just going by the serial numbers, could have affected almost 470k engines. Repair costs were in the $4-7k range because you had to take the engine out to replace the balance shafts which were only a few hundred dollars. People who don't know any better are still buying cars from that age and running into that problem, problem could appear anywhere from 40-120k. I still see ads online from people who claim that the car runs fine but there's a CEL light on and they assume it's nothing, but they must really know that it's a sign the engine is starting to go and it will only get worse over the next few thousand miles.


Mercedes was 3rd in the TOP 10 part of the list, as in they had the third LOWEST failure rate.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Can you really judge a Jaguar's reliability on the same scale as a Honda? ....


I can.

My Honda, bought new, the bally hooed CVCC variant, at about 60 or 70K miles, barely had enough compression to start. I consider that a failure.

Four Jaguars, still have two, no engine failures.

Call it apples to whatever you want - my personal experience.

Engine reliability - unless it's an airplane - and however it is defined, in this day and age, is a dumb determinant for a car purchase, maybe the dumbest, imho.

I'be been engaged to look into the aftermath of a fatal car accident - the decedent died in a Honda, ( well, shortly after being extracted from what was left of it - but it's clear from the reports the attending people knew it was a life ending event ). Would a Jaguar have saved her life? I dunno, but I would much rather have been in a Jaguar.

 

[veryHeavy]

I use the list to avoid certain brands of cars. Like VW.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
three of my BMWs have anywhere from 110,000 miles to 192,000 miles on them

If the engine breakdown rate is 1 in 50, and you only owned three, naturally the odds are in your favor. You will see no issue.

I've noticed one interesting phenomenon:

DENIAL. Goto tdiclub and you will find guys say, "My VW is rock solid and never broken down," but in their search history they complained multiple times they had the car in the shop for repair. Maybe it's VW-induced amnesia.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Mercedes and others generally have lots of tech that can fail. Also if they're only going up to 2012, that probably covers the Mercedes M272 engine which came out in 2004 and up to about 2007 had bad balance shafts and just going by the serial numbers, could have affected almost 470k engines. Repair costs were in the $4-7k range because you had to take the engine out to replace the balance shafts which were only a few hundred dollars. People who don't know any better are still buying cars from that age and running into that problem, problem could appear anywhere from 40-120k. I still see ads online from people who claim that the car runs fine but there's a CEL light on and they assume it's nothing, but they must really know that it's a sign the engine is starting to go and it will only get worse over the next few thousand miles.


Mercedes was 3rd in the TOP 10 part of the list, as in they had the third LOWEST failure rate.


Yeah, imagine how much higher it would have been if they didn't have that problem. But that's typical of new engine designs, a few flaws that aren't discovered til a few years later and then fixed. It's still true what they say about not buying a first year model.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
While reliable, all 5 Toyota's I've owned were oil burners that eventually required service because of consumption.


Sounds to me like YOU'RE doing something wrong...


I believe what he said. Many Toyotas are known oil burners. Camrys, Corollas, etc of certain years. Heck my GF's Prius needed a quart per 1000 miles and its a hybrid! The dealer claimed it was normal and that only a quart per 800 miles would be a reason for a rebuild. She sold the car.


I've had (and still have) high mileage Corollas with the 1.8 engine. They both started using oil at about a rate of one qt per 3K miles, and they started using at it about the 150K mile mark. My '99 Corolla lasted 295K miles, and my current one has 294K, and is still going strong. To me, one qt every 3K miles is completely acceptable...none of my other Toyotas have used oil...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Mercedes and others generally have lots of tech that can fail. Also if they're only going up to 2012, that probably covers the Mercedes M272 engine which came out in 2004 and up to about 2007 had bad balance shafts and just going by the serial numbers, could have affected almost 470k engines. Repair costs were in the $4-7k range because you had to take the engine out to replace the balance shafts which were only a few hundred dollars. People who don't know any better are still buying cars from that age and running into that problem, problem could appear anywhere from 40-120k. I still see ads online from people who claim that the car runs fine but there's a CEL light on and they assume it's nothing, but they must really know that it's a sign the engine is starting to go and it will only get worse over the next few thousand miles.


Mercedes was 3rd in the TOP 10 part of the list, as in they had the third LOWEST failure rate.


Yeah, imagine how much higher it would have been if they didn't have that problem. But that's typical of new engine designs, a few flaws that aren't discovered til a few years later and then fixed. It's still true what they say about not buying a first year model.


Just thinking about some of the vehicles in the Mercedes lineup (bi-turbo V12 anyone?) though, and they still managed to rank just behind Honda and Toyota, producers of, what many would argue, are appliances, as we aren't talking about Lexus here. It completely contradicts the premise of the title of this thread.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
While reliable, all 5 Toyota's I've owned were oil burners that eventually required service because of consumption.


Sounds to me like YOU'RE doing something wrong...


I believe what he said. Many Toyotas are known oil burners. Camrys, Corollas, etc of certain years. Heck my GF's Prius needed a quart per 1000 miles and its a hybrid! The dealer claimed it was normal and that only a quart per 800 miles would be a reason for a rebuild. She sold the car.


I've had (and still have) high mileage Corollas with the 1.8 engine. They both started using oil at about a rate of one qt per 3K miles, and they started using at it about the 150K mile mark. My '99 Corolla lasted 295K miles, and my current one has 294K, and is still going strong. To me, one qt every 3K miles is completely acceptable...none of my other Toyotas have used oil...


I don't think a quart per 3000 miles is bad at all for a high mileage vehicle, especially one with close to 300k. The problem is the vehicles in question had/have less than 100k miles. My GF's Prius had 45k miles on it when she sold it, and the mpg was actually getting noticeably worse. Not sure if that had anything to do with the oil burning though. Browsing the Prius forum we found that it is considered "normal" for this generation.

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: KenO
What a [censored] poor list. I've NEVER had a BMW engine failure, and you couldn't pry my wonderfully built BMWs out of my cold dead hands. VW, otoh, is the largest automaker in the world.....and they're junk.


Same here with regards to BMW engine reliability; three of mine have anywhere from 110,000 miles to 192,000 miles on them. That said, I realize personal experience is always trumped by internet hearsay...


This is a classic thread over at Fatwallet, short version instead of 17 pages is that her BMW /M3 died after only 72k miles. It was going to be 25k to replace the engine. They bought it back.

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1283276


IO'm not reading the entire thread, but - most likely rod bearing failure. Partly BMW's fault for putting a race motor intoa car with a license plate, partly the owners fault for most likely not driving it the way it was built to be driven. Between light city driving and infrequent dealer-only oil changes, it smoked the rod bearings earlier than normal. They should be done by 100k, preferably earlier on most daily drivers.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
I use the list to avoid certain brands of cars. Like VW.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
three of my BMWs have anywhere from 110,000 miles to 192,000 miles on them

If the engine breakdown rate is 1 in 50, and you only owned three, naturally the odds are in your favor. You will see no issue.



Actually I've owned 11 and leased 1; at present there are 5 BMWs and 1 Jeep in the garage.

 

[JHZR2]

I think Honda is the biggest engine maker in the world. Id expect them to be pretty good as a result.

Im curious why Toyota and Lexus have different failure rates - dont those vehicles all typically use the same engines? Whats the difference, some V8s in their upper range Lexus cars?

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

On the other end of scale are the rice rockets that get more than hammered. The only saving grace in such reporting is that these car owners often accept the idea that there is no such thing as warranty coverage for their car once it gets fixed up.


You are missing the complete Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, CTS-V, G8, GTO Charger, Challenger side of this. The amount of hammer those cars take and the amount of modifications these type of cars get make me laugh at the rice rockets. I can't remember that last time I saw a Civic at the track. I have however seen a slew of the late model cars I mentioned. Cannot beat a well built V8 to move a car out smartly with little to no warranty work. Not only that my Truck sees more high rpm then any of those as it spends all of it time towing.
When you are moving something small and light that isn't making a ton of power I expect it to last a long time. You have to make power to break something.