Microgreen and 2012 Honda Pilot Experience

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I've been a lurker here for a while, but never posted. I thought my Microgreen experience might help somebody out down the road.

I bought a 101-7 oil filter off of Amazon for my 2012 Honda Pilot EXL. I installed it with the correct 0W-20 Mobile one oil. After driving about a 1000 miles over the course of 3-4 weeks my pilot went in to limp mode shutting down three of the cylinders. This just happened to be on Christmas eve when my family was 150 miles from home.
I was able to get to an Advanced Auto before closing on Christmas eve and they read code P3400 (Valve Pause System Stuck Off Bank 1) After limping back to my parents’ house and doing some more research I realized I would be able to disconnect a rocker pressure switch to disable limp mode(get back to full power) and get back home. At this point I was highly suspect of the Micro Green filter but couldn't get anything else. On 12/26/16 when everything opened back up I got a OEM Honda filter and installed it and reset the codes. I did not change the oil. I have had NO problems in over 1000 miles and 4 weeks.
My conclusion: The Micro Green filter caused my otherwise fine Honda Pilot to go into limp mode leaving me nearly stranded.

I have used both Fram and K&N on this vehicle with no issues. Apparently my Pilot is very sensitive to oil filter pressure, The increased filtration along with 1000 miles of driving increased the pressure more than it liked.

Eric
 
I've been leery about using the 101-7 I bought for my Accord since the louvers seem almost closed. This may be what keeps me away from it for good.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Have you sent it to the company, maybe a defect?


I have been in contact with them, and sent it back last week. haven't heard anything yet.

Eric
 
I've been tempted by a MG for the wife's Pentastar, but concerns about this exact sort of thing (slow response of cam phasing in the case of the Pentastar) are exactly why I haven't tried it yet. And your experience is making me lean toward NOT trying it at all...
 
The Louvre issue that I have read of off of this Site prompted me to buy as many old gen Wix's for this car that I could reasonably use that had the holes down the centre tube and NOT louvres.

Too many machining variables could produce batches of engine destroying filters in almost a blink of an eye with todays manufacturing speeds.

There is a great parts place right near me I could recommend just PM me if you are from around here, he sells Wix filtration cheap.

And this answers another question I have been having about Microgreen, now I know to look into it a lot more.
 
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I have used so many 101-7's that you could fill up a oil drum with.
No issues! That said I dislike drama myself so I won't use what I fear. Why bother?

Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
I've been leery about using the 101-7 I bought for my Accord since the louvers seem almost closed. This may be what keeps me away from it for good.
 
Honestly buy a flashlight and look before you install.
I'd rather use a louvered oil filter where every square inch is louvered than an oil filter with hole here and there and spaced far apart. The whole argument is nonsense IMHO unless you have a defective one and it is so easy to inspect its nothing but drama.... nothing personal however. I just don't see it as an issue.

All the Hastings I have here have semi closed louvers near the base of the oil filters. It could be for ( altered) flow- pressure or to reduce media tearing, manufacturing process or ???? But the rest are fully opened and I inspected two cases from various distros.....

Originally Posted By: The_German
The Louvre issue that I have read of off of this Site prompted me to buy as many old gen Wix's for this car that I could reasonably use that had the holes down the centre tube and NOT louvres.

Too many machining variables could produce batches of engine destroying filters in almost a blink of an eye with todays manufacturing speeds.

There is a great parts place right near me I could recommend just PM me if you are from around here, he sells Wix filtration cheap.

And this answers another question I have been having about Microgreen, now I know to look into it a lot more.
 
Microgreen 101-1 adbv operating area.

DSCN1043_zpsxqiicn4t.jpg


Normal filter, old style Denso in this case.

DSCN1047_zpscyj3uvdp.jpg




I would like to see a 101-7 cut open. I would use the 101-1 if this technical issue wasn't present as the concept is nice. The louvers are very likely OK, likely enough of them are open even if some are closed. What I show here is a major design defect unless someone has a better explanation how it can possibly work. What I show here could cause an issue like you stated.
 
Originally Posted By: Eric0919
I have used both Fram and K&N on this vehicle with no issues. Apparently my Pilot is very sensitive to oil filter pressure, The increased filtration along with 1000 miles of driving increased the pressure more than it liked.

Eric


I think you mean "decreased the pressure", not "increase".
And, no, MicroGreen does not lose pressure from increased filtration because it uses normal, popular media.

The MicroGreen oil filter is really a normal, mixed glass/paper media oil filter that happens to have a parallel path thru a hockey puck for gradually greater filtration.
The main point here is a parallel oil flow path does NOT decrease oil pressure by design.
The louver issue is possible.

Eric0919, please check to see if those louvers are open.
Of course, if there was reduced oil pressure from an oil filter issue, then you'd think the Engine Oil Pressure light would alert you. But OK, we can assume the pressure loss was not great enough to trip the pressure light, but enough to affect the rocker arm hydraulic circuit pressure.


From the web:
Possible causes of a P3400 code:
Low engine oil level
Faulty Rocker Arm Oil Control Solenoid
Faulty EOP (Engine Oil Pressure) sensor
Incorrect oil type used
Engine mechanical condition
What does this mean?
When is the code detected?
If there is a difference between the oil pressure conditions in the hydraulic circuit that are determined by the PCM command and the oil pressure conditions that are determined by the status of the front or rear rocker arm oil pressure switches, the system is considered faulty and the DTC is stored.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
What I show here is a major design defect unless someone has a better explanation how it can possibly work. What I show here could cause an issue like you stated.

MicroGreen engineers know that differential pressure loss (flow resistance) must be limited. Its mechanical engineering 101.
Surface area alone wouldn't explain much, comparing a pure paper Denso filter to a glass/paper mixed for the MicroGreen is comparing apples to oranges.
 
That green media filter is old. Just noting that.
That haven't used that color for years.
We have discussed this before.
I think if you buy one or buy anything and it isn't to your liking return it.
If I was them I'd refund your money even on the one you cut open.

I will have next month another 101-7 cut open at or above 10 k
I have used the Ultra, Mobil, Baldwin, and Hastings on these vehicles and the MG caused no issues and I'm not a fanboy either. I dislike the way they handle some questions but that said I'm no fan of customers who live in total fear over minor stuff like filters. Return the stuff and move on as life is too short to worry about a tin can....
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
What I show here is a major design defect unless someone has a better explanation how it can possibly work. What I show here could cause an issue like you stated.

MicroGreen engineers know that differential pressure loss (flow resistance) must be limited. Its mechanical engineering 101.
Surface area alone wouldn't explain much, comparing a pure paper Denso filter to a glass/paper mixed for the MicroGreen is comparing apples to oranges.


goodtimes is talking about the lack of space for the ADBV to open up and flow oil. In his photo representing an assembled fitler with dome end spring holding it all in place, the ADBV looks to be smashed flat. Enough oil pressure would probably still allow some oil flow past the ADBV, but it would cause a huge resistance to flow making it to the engine and cause the oil pump to hit pressure relief and shunt most of the oil back to the sump.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
What I show here is a major design defect unless someone has a better explanation how it can possibly work. What I show here could cause an issue like you stated.

MicroGreen engineers know that differential pressure loss (flow resistance) must be limited. Its mechanical engineering 101.
Surface area alone wouldn't explain much, comparing a pure paper Denso filter to a glass/paper mixed for the MicroGreen is comparing apples to oranges.


goodtimes is talking about the lack of space for the ADBV to open up and flow oil. In his photo representing an assembled fitler with dome end spring holding it all in place, the ADBV looks to be smashed flat. Enough oil pressure would probably still allow some oil flow past the ADBV, but it would cause a huge resistance to flow making it to the engine and cause the oil pump to hit pressure relief and shunt most of the oil back to the sump.


The filter I pictured was made in 2015. I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about the closed ADBV only. The ADBV is totally pressed flat on the end cap, can't open, no flow the way it's pictured. It can flow oil due to the large coil spring. The whole element moves up on the spring, but then the end cap and attached ADBV seal in the center moves up. I am only suggesting a possible reason for the problem in this thread. A 101-7 is a different model than the one I show.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies




I think you mean "decreased the pressure", not "increase".
And, no, MicroGreen does not lose pressure from increased filtration because it uses normal, popular media.


Increased filtration because don't they claim 2 micron versus other companies higher number?

I already sent the filter back. Just looking in it I didn't see anything abnormal but its the first one I had ever used or seen so I don't have anything to compare it to.
 
Originally Posted By: Eric0919

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
I think you mean "decreased the pressure", not "increase".
And, no, MicroGreen does not lose pressure from increased filtration because it uses normal, popular media.
Increased filtration because don't they claim 2 micron versus other companies higher number?
I already sent the filter back. Just looking in it I didn't see anything abnormal but its the first one I had ever used or seen so I don't have anything to compare it to.


The MicroGreen design puts a normal filter IN PARALLEL with a separate hockey-puck path, so it behaves about the same as a normal, everyday Fram ToughGuard with its mixed glass/paper media.
The 2-micron claim comes from the hockey puck, which DOES NOT block any flow path, since its not in serial with the main normal media, its in parallel.

It is similar to two water pipes, parallel with each other, one pipe much smaller than the other, and both getting water from the same source. Notice pressure drop in the main pipe won't be affected negatively at all by the smaller pipe.

unsymmetricalparallelpipes.png

Notice the Q1 flow pipe (like the 2-micron hockey puck in the MicroGreen) is in parallel with the main larger pipe. Notice Q1 doesn't hurt Q2 at all because its not in series.
 
goodtimes may have clamped it so hard it collapsed the ADBV silicon rubber. It normally has room to move the edge flap.

This diagram shows how it is supposed to fit in there:
maxresdefault.jpg
 
I understand a small amount flows through the 2 micron puck, but how does the emergency bypass work if needed?

I see the dome bypass in the picture, but don't get where the source of the bypass oil comes from. Does it need to go through the 'puck' filter.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
goodtimes may have clamped it so hard it collapsed the ADBV silicon rubber. It normally has room to move the edge flap.

This diagram shows how it is supposed to fit in there:
maxresdefault.jpg



Not a lot of pressure was applied by the clamp, about the same or less than how it is when assembled. Light finger pressure will close the ADBV against the end cap. How I show the filter is how it will look installed on the engine. This was the 101-1 and others may differ from it. I have seen that drawing before, if it was like that it would be fine. It isn't like that on the one I showed.
 
Originally Posted By: cmlind
I understand a small amount flows through the 2 micron puck, but how does the emergency bypass work if needed?

I see the dome bypass in the picture, but don't get where the source of the bypass oil comes from. Does it need to go through the 'puck' filter.


It appears it must happen below the blue part (picture above) when inlet pressure gets very high (due to a clogged filter and/or high viscosity cold oil). Not thru the puck.

I might just cut the new one I have, sacrificed in the name of science. Pipe cutter I guess does it.
 
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