dexos 1 and long drain capability

[fdcg27]

I was at a Meijer location Friday and saw an older man contemplating the house brand synthetic that was priced at BOGO 50% off.
I offered that I'd used the oil on 5K drains with no issue but I didn't know whether it was capable of running to the 8-9K the MM of my '12 Accord would allow.
He said that he has a '14 Accord and never ran more than 4K drains. I told him that the 0W-20 grade of this oil would be fine for that.
I then noticed that this oil carried the dexos 1 logo and so was a dexos licensed oil.
If an oil is actually dexos licensed, can one assume that the oil would be adequate for GM IOLM drain intervals as well as those of Hondas by extension?
It would seem so.
That a twelve buck a jug oil on frequently offered store deals could do this seems pretty impressive.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Yes, it will be fine for the computer-suggested OCI

 

[gabriel9766]

I would say it should last the OCI based on the OLM. Im running napa syn which is dexos approved down to 15% on my OLM.

 

[Doublehaul]

This is exactly the problem with more and more oil specs...not everyone is an oil nerd like us.

Things were great when there was just a simple GF5 or SN.

Manufactures should be forced to design around this imho...not the other way around. Its the tail wagging the dog imho.

ONE CURRENT SPEC...make it universal or back to chaos

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

That uniformity time is past. Each design has its flaws and advantages. Dexos 1 is less focused in piston deposits than several other specs. Even a vw 501 and 502 are better in the cleanliness aspect. But in fuel economy is the other way around...

Not the best long drain oil, imo.

 

[TiredTrucker]

If one used an electron scanning microscope, they still couldn't find any trust on my part for the OLM calibrations for changing my oil. That came from GM's OLM in the 3.6L LY7 in my Cadillac. After many others had experienced catastrophic timing chain failures, GM determined it needed to reduce the OLM calibration so that OCI's would be half of what they were to begin with. I had never went with the OLM to begin with. After that move, and general skepticism, I have no use for OLM determinations. I stick with miles or engine hours methodology. They might have it right in some of their vehicles, but I am not going to place any trust in it, regardless of vehicle or OEM.

 

[jorton]

vw is 7 and dexos is 5 out of 10. IMO both protect against deposits.

I think regular oil has the same warranty as Dexos oil.

"What the period of coverage is

The Mobil Super and Mobil Super™ High Mileage limited warranties are valid for 5,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

The Mobil Super™ Synthetic limited warranty is valid for 7,500 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer."

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
If one used an electron scanning microscope, they still couldn't find any trust on my part for the OLM calibrations for changing my oil. That came from GM's OLM in the 3.6L LY7 in my Cadillac. After many others had experienced catastrophic timing chain failures, GM determined it needed to reduce the OLM calibration so that OCI's would be half of what they were to begin with. I had never went with the OLM to begin with. After that move, and general skepticism, I have no use for OLM determinations. I stick with miles or engine hours methodology. They might have it right in some of their vehicles, but I am not going to place any trust in it, regardless of vehicle or OEM.



To be fair, the chain stretch issue isn't really an oil problem, at least not in it's majority. The entire design is flawed, just like that multiple chain design in Audi's and any other car is flawed. There are too many parts to wear to create chains lop - tensioners, toothed gears, plastic guide rails.... And with 3 chains and 7 toothed gears, and 6 or 7 plastic rails....it's bound to happen.

 

[fdcg27]

FWIU, the timing chain failures seen in the first several years of certain HF V-6 engines were related to inadequately hardened timing chain components that may have been centered around US built engines.
A member who had two HF V-6 engines of the troublesome years noted in another thread that he'd had no problems using the original OLM limits with his engines, one of which was built in Japan and the other in Australia and both of which were well past 100K.
Timing chains work great if the timing setup as a whole is properly designed and the proper alloys and hardening treatments are used.
Most OHC engines with chain driven cams will go to the yard with their original timing components working just fine.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Could be. My 2006 CTS 3.6 is still doing fine. Only issue is that the poor PCV port location and essentially no baffling causes a lot of oil to get sucked up thru it. I solved that issue with a Elite air/oil separator on the PCV line. But it is indeed a point that GM did change the OLM parameters and reduced the intervals to approximately half of what it had been from the factory. They goofed that one up. I never was really on board with OLM directed oil changes anyway, and that solidified my distrust for them.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I then noticed that this oil carried the dexos 1 logo and so was a dexos licensed oil.
If an oil is actually dexos licensed, can one assume that the oil would be adequate for GM IOLM drain intervals as well as those of Hondas by extension?
It would seem so.


Obviously, since the oil is SN, GF-5, AND dexos1, and Honda only calls for SN-GF5 minimum, then of course having dexos1 is a bonus and actually too good for the Honda.[/b]

 

[fdcg27]

If you want to know how Honda really thinks an oil should be formulated, take a look at a VOA of HGMO 0W-20 API SM.
I'm running this Idemitsu blended oil in my Accord. I bought forty quarts of it from another member because between the mega moly treat and the VI, it seemed like an oil I'd want to use.
You can find a VOA in that section of this site.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I stick with miles or engine hours methodology. They might have it right in some of their vehicles, but I am not going to place any trust in it, regardless of vehicle or OEM.

Realistically, manual mileage recommendations can be just as off (and have been, on occasion) as an OLM. Both are based on some reasoning and assumptions, and if they're faulty, it doesn't matter whether the error is in black and white or in 1s and 0s.

 

[SteveSRT8]

The GM OLM as applied to V8's only has been proven to be extremely accurate. And it is watching many data points, not just hours or miles. It even takes in our stationary operations perfectly. And it is surprisingly consistent as long as the operating parameters are also. In our service vans it usually gives a holler about 4-4500 miles on the odometer. In our Silverados it has run all the way out to beyond 10k if highway miles! No guessing, just real protection without waste.

It has saved us thousands of dollars on oil and filters since its introduction. And our engines outlast our vans and trucks.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Accurate in terms of the oil is still good to use, but not necessarily in terms of how the engine is doing with those intervals. There are many examples of hydraulic lifters, VVT components, etc that have failed early, and GM TSB's have mentioned oil change longevity as one of the possible culprits. And oil samples test the oil, not how the build up of wear metals and particulates, even within the allowed parameters, might be affecting the engine at higher OCI's. And we all have to keep in mind, that this OLM thing is also motivated by economics and the tree hugging interests as much as anything else. And the OLM cannot account for every variable. For instance, the OLM has no way of determining that my pickup must do a minimum of 4 miles dusty gravel roads each time it leaves my driveway. Still looking for the environmental dust sensor that can tell it that, and I have yet to locate one.

 

[Solarent]

Here's a little known fact about Dexos1:
This program has terrible base oil interchange rules. What that means is that there are relatively few formulas that can be officially approved because you aren't allowed to swap out one Group III for another. So,regardless of who you buy it from, you are probably getting the same base oil and additives that everyone else is using.
Sure most of the majors will have their own certifications tested and approved, but everyone else is at the mercy of whatever their additive company tested their product in.

There is a good article on Group III interchange struggles in this month's Lubes N Greases magazine.

 

[ChrisD46]

In the USA I look for a Dexos 1 oil (5W30) which also meets the Honda HT-06 spec as being a cut above (until you get into the Euro oils).

 

[SteveSRT8]

I feel certain that no matter what system is implemented some part of it will be weak in some folks eyes. Until then, I keep on saving huge money on maintenance and get nearly indefinite engine life with the GM OLM system. The last van we wrecked here was bought back and all driveline components were sold in just days despite 185k miles on the odometer. People were literally hounding us for that engine/trans combo.

And very few dirt roads in nice neighborhoods around here!

 

[TiredTrucker]

Also fact, Dexos1 spec doesn't allow for 10w30. We all know that 10w30 usually will have a lower NOACK than any 0w30 or 5w30 in the same brand. And there are some very fine, stout 10w30 oils in the marketplace. Yes, even full synthetics. And they beat the minimum dexos1 requirements by quite a margin. When one starts looking at simple things like this, it starts to look like GM is just trying to play a game with the dexos1 thing. Good spec? Yeah, probably, but still has somewhat of a corporate directed narrow focus. Kinda like my 2006 Cadillac CTS (pre-dexos), while M1 5w30 synthetic is what GM wanted in it from the git go, the current Pennzoil 10w30 conventional meets the 6094M requirement per the manual for that motor. So, it is getting PYB 10w30. And it actually seems to do far better on it. Less oil consumption and runs great.