Experienced Linux Mint users?

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: The_Nuke
Ignore the Intel Microcode thing, you can run it with that activated or without, won't make a difference for your freezing problem.

IMHO, the video driver is a good candidate, but you should be able to run different versions of it to test that theory. Swapping out the video card may work, but only if the different hardware requires a different video driver that isn't susceptible to the freezing problem's root cause.

I have an old PC clone with an Intel Mobo, Pentium CPU, DDR2 mem, etc. that sounds like it's very close to the type and architecture of hardware you are running, and I have three different versions of Mint installed on it (17.3 Cinnamon, 18 Cinnamon, and 18.1 MATE). So far, it has frozen up on me just like you describe (manipulating text in a LibreOffice Word document) on two of those and required a hard reset to resolve each time.

I haven't seen the freeze on the 18.1 yet, but it is running a different version of the nVidia drivers which I believe are causing my problems in the other two. Also, once I backed out the nVidia driver in the 17.3 and started using the generic version that is available for nVidia cards, I haven't seen anymore issues (but also stopped messing with LibreOffice for time being).

One other method by which I was able to test the various drivers' compatibility with its target setup was with the installed browsers (Vivaldi, Firefox, etc.) or any software that allows disabling/enabling of hardware acceleration (using the GPU). If the driver was giving me problems, it was always evident in how the programs that used the hardware acceleration behaved, and once I turned it off in those programs, they stopped acting up (blinking screens, etc.).

It may ultimately end up being a combination of things like the kernel version, desktop flavor, software bug, and video driver. Or maybe it's just 2 of the 4, or even 3 of the 4...and removing one of the elements of the equation will prevent the crashing even though the other elements remain.

Either way, the video drivers are going to be involved somehow I am willing to bet. Keep notes on what you're running now, what you run with new video card, and any other changes to them in future. If you get another freeze, write that down next to the driver notes. It may take a while, but you can probably narrow things down to what just doesn't play well together and avoid them altogether in an attempt to stop the crashing.

One more idea: stop using Libre Office in the interim (except for when trying to recreate or test new drivers/hardware). Use Google Docs or even Microsoft's free versions of Word/Excel/etc. to do your Office related tasks instead. They are all online (not installed locally per se), but they all have installable apps which can be installed in the browser you use (Chromium & Vivaldi at the very least) to make it more like you're using software installed locally on the PC.

Not exactly like the experience of having the suite on your PC, but close enough and good enough to get you by while you figure out what needs to be done to stop the crashes.


Thanks for the info. One thing that did help a little was disabling the hardware acceleration, I did that a few days ago. Yesterday I got through the day w/o a freeze, but I didn't do anything graphic intensive. This machine is an entry level business machine, which was given to me to fool around with, I enjoy working with computers. The graphics card is integrated with the chipset, and I believe that is where my problem lies. Point taken about using Office, however it has frozen simply moving from a website to the desktop, or loading a picture or video on a website. But if I push it hard with copying and pasting pictures into a document I can get the problem to happen. I will try one of the online office programs and see what happens if I have some time today. I never gave that any thought.

Another thing I noticed, if I hover over the show desktop icon while reading something in either Firefox, or Chromium it switches over to the desktop, and sometimes freezes things up. If I click on the show desktop icon the odds of it happening are a lot less, if that makes sense.

I have taken notes, and I will resolve this issue, sooner or later.

Thanks again for the good info! I got more info here than on the Linux board.

 

[The_Nuke]

Another possibility to keep in mind would be hardware going bad from old age and such. It's certainly not the most probable explanation for random freezes, but I have seen it happen a handful of times over the years. If you have two sticks of RAM, pull one and run the OS to see if it still freezes at any point. If not, swap the sticks out and try again. Also, pull the side of the case and visually inspect every capacitor on the main board you can see. If any are leaking or oozing, that's a problem that needs to be addressed even it isn't your culprit. Doing an extended surface scan of the HD in the SMART util is always a good idea. And so on and so forth.

Again, not the most likely causes of your problem, but not zero chance either, so just keep them in mind.

 

[demarpaint]

I installed the graphics card, and will be testing it over the next few days. Everything inside looks fine, I cleaned it out, I ran the SMART utility and it passed. I will update the thread for those who are interested. If it should freeze I'll remove a memory stick as you suggested. Thanks to everyone for the help!

 

[demarpaint]

I had a few good days with the new graphics card, but it froze up today.

I switched from the Nvida-340 driver to the Nouveau open source driver. If that doesn't work I'll play around with the Kernels. If that fails I'll probably punt.

 

[The_Nuke]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I had a few good days with the new graphics card, but it froze up today.

I switched from the Nvida-340 driver to the Nouveau open source driver. If that doesn't work I'll play around with the Kernels. If that fails I'll probably punt.


That's the version I have been using on my nVidia boxes when running Linux, and it seems to be the ticket to stability lately, so hopefully it will provide you with some relief as well.

Also, I wanted to point out that you have access to Mint's system log files to try to troubleshoot issues and resolve problems, so be sure to peruse those if you experience another freeze/crash.

You can access them all in one UI by clicking Menu->Administration->System Log app (you will have to scroll the Administration menu listing down until you see the System Log entry, but it's in there.)

You may not be able to understand all of what you find in those logs subsequent to another crash event, but it's useful info nonetheless and should be saved off to provide to anyone that can make use of it or understand it.

But then again, maybe now that you're using the 'correct' drivers, hopefully you won't even have to worry about this log stuff!

 

[demarpaint]

I'm still having some issues. The nVidia 340 driver is not good. I purged all nVidia drivers and went with the Noveau driver, which seems to have eliminated the ghost problem.

Now if the monitor powers down and I come back and move the mouse to wake the computer the screen stays blank. I know the tower is on. I force a reboot and the machine reboots and the monitor remains black. If I pull the plug to the monitor wait a few seconds and plug it in again it works. It takes 24-48 hours for a problem to occur, which is why I'm not updating the thread that often.

A good friend told me to check the actual settings of the monitor, and make a change which I did 19 hours ago. So time will tell if that worked. I went into the audio settings of the monitor and turned power saver to the OFF position. That will let the computer tell the monitor when to power off, not have the monitor and the computer telling the monitor when to turn off. It was worth a shot.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm still having some issues. The nVidia 340 driver is not good. I purged all nVidia drivers and went with the Noveau driver, which seems to have eliminated the ghost problem.

Now if the monitor powers down and I come back and move the mouse to wake the computer the screen stays blank. I know the tower is on. I force a reboot and the machine reboots and the monitor remains black. If I pull the plug to the monitor wait a few seconds and plug it in again it works. It takes 24-48 hours for a problem to occur, which is why I'm not updating the thread that often.

A good friend told me to check the actual settings of the monitor, and make a change which I did 19 hours ago. So time will tell if that worked. I went into the audio settings of the monitor and turned power saver to the OFF position. That will let the computer tell the monitor when to power off, not have the monitor and the computer telling the monitor when to turn off. It was worth a shot.


This is a new machine that never had Mate on it, right?

 

[demarpaint]

No, it's my Dell Vostro 220 64 bit [4GB Ram] that ran Mate from version 16-18. I decided to give Cinnamon 18.1 a try because according to the site the machine met the requirements to run it. So far no problems today, yet..............

I'm trying like [censored] to get it to work with Cinnamon, knowing I can go back to Mate.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
No, it's my Dell Vostro 220 64 bit [4GB Ram] that ran Mate from version 16-18. I decided to give Cinnamon 18.1 a try because according to the site the machine met the requirements to run it. So far no problems today, yet..............

I'm trying like [censored] to get it to work with Cinnamon, knowing I can go back to Mate.


I haven't read this whole thread; but I'd begin with a complete removal of Nvidia: Not just uninstalling the packages but residual config files (including the Xorg.conf if Nvidia ever created one) and seeing if there is something you don't like about the Nouveau driver, with the Nouveau driver running cleanly without any residual Nvidia stuff. I forget which software management application comes stock with Mint and whether MATE and Cinnamon use the same one so I will just suggest this:

Code:
sudo apt-get remove --purge nvidia*


... And since the systme would re-create one at boot time anyhow I'd look for an /etc/X11/Xorg.conf file and see if it contains any mention of Nvidia and...

Code:
sudo mv /etc/X11/Xorg.cong /etc/X11/Xorg.conf.BAK


(This would essentially rename the Xorg.conf file to Xorg.conf.BAK so that the system doesn't use it at boot time.)

Failing that I'd let the Mint proprietary driver tool select the Nvidia driver and version it thinks is appropriate (on Ubuntu most cards are using the 340.x) and you might even want to try getting a driver directly from Nvidia's web site. If the system ends up unbootable into a GUI you can always just use the command I quoted above and start again with Nouveau.

To isolate and identify if this is a Ubuntu/ Mint issue I might even run the system for a while with a live Fedora or OpenSUSE stick (you could still mount your hard drive, presuming it isn't encrypted, and do your work or whatever on the system) and see how that flies. That might be too time-intensive, though.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
No, it's my Dell Vostro 220 64 bit [4GB Ram] that ran Mate from version 16-18. I decided to give Cinnamon 18.1 a try because according to the site the machine met the requirements to run it. So far no problems today, yet..............

I'm trying like [censored] to get it to work with Cinnamon, knowing I can go back to Mate.


I haven't read this whole thread; but I'd begin with a complete removal of Nvidia: Not just uninstalling the packages but residual config files (including the Xorg.conf if Nvidia ever created one) and seeing if there is something you don't like about the Nouveau driver, with the Nouveau driver running cleanly without any residual Nvidia stuff. I forget which software management application comes stock with Mint and whether MATE and Cinnamon use the same one so I will just suggest this:

Code:
sudo apt-get remove --purge nvidia*


... And since the systme would re-create one at boot time anyhow I'd look for an /etc/X11/Xorg.conf file and see if it contains any mention of Nvidia and...

Code:
sudo mv /etc/X11/Xorg.cong /etc/X11/Xorg.conf.BAK


(This would essentially rename the Xorg.conf file to Xorg.conf.BAK so that the system doesn't use it at boot time.)

Failing that I'd let the Mint proprietary driver tool select the Nvidia driver and version it thinks is appropriate (on Ubuntu most cards are using the 340.x) and you might even want to try getting a driver directly from Nvidia's web site. If the system ends up unbootable into a GUI you can always just use the command I quoted above and start again with Nouveau.

To isolate and identify if this is a Ubuntu/ Mint issue I might even run the system for a while with a live Fedora or OpenSUSE stick (you could still mount your hard drive, presuming it isn't encrypted, and do your work or whatever on the system) and see how that flies. That might be too time-intensive, though.


Thank you for the reply! What I did do was a clean install and before doing any updates I did this: sudo apt-get remove --purge nvidia* then installed the Nouveau driver. That stopped the Ghost problem. As I mentioned after I have an issue and reboot, and unplug the monitor it can take up to 48 hours for the problem to reoccur, so I have a while to go yet to see if the monitor changes did anything.

The nVidia driver gave me problems. On boot up the splash screen that show the LM logo was a lousy looking font with the words Mint 18.1 With the Nouveau driver it was the LM green logo, if that matters. The mouse also dragged with the 340 driver, not so with Nouveau driver.

 

[uc50ic4more]

In all honesty, given that these issues manifest every 48h or so I would begin to suspect hardware. Before I would suspect busted or faulty hardware, though, I would pull my GPU card out of its slot, blow some compressed air (from a can or vigorously from your face) into the slot and perhaps even wipe off the edge connector of the card itself with some >90% isopropyl alcohol. I would then re-seat that little puppy good and proper.

Heat could also be an issue: Maybe make sure your case fans are working and are dust-free; and see if there is some system monitoring software in the repos that can indicate what chips are operating at what temperature and whether those temps are within optimal operating parameters.

Also note whether these issues pop up only after a suspend and resume (I've had Nvidia issues of that nature) or any other type of automatic power management event.

Let's not rule out that monitor, either. Do you have a spare to use an an experiment control?

You can also bring up the Nvidia control application: Maybe offloading some compositing and other processing directly to the card, overriding software would make a difference?

Forgive me if these thing have been touched on already. I still haven't read the entire thread.

 

[demarpaint]

You pretty much have the info, no need to read through the thread.

I tried a different monitor, the card is new, the fans and processor are clean and dust free. I took the tower outside and fired up the compressor and blew it out.

Other than blow the slot out for the graphics card I didn't do any additional cleaning to the slot itself. I had the Ghost issue with the on board graphics card. With the new card I had the ghost problem, and the blank screen. I think the ghost problem is on longer an issue, since I purged nVidia and reinstalled the Nouveau driver. I won't know if the monitor settings tweak was the fix for the blank screen or not until tomorrow afternoon. That would be 48 hours, the problem happens usually within 24-48 hours.

When the screen is blank a forced reboot doesn't fix it. I have to unplug the power from the monitor wait a few seconds and plug it in again, then all is fine until 24-48 hours. The computer can be running and I leave to have lunch come back the monitor is set to turn off, the computer is running and the monitor won't come on by moving the mouse or hitting the space bar. The power light indicates the monitor should be on, it goes from an orange light, power on monitor screen blank, to a blue light power on monitor working. The blue light will be on but the monitor is blank.

 

[uc50ic4more]

I'd make sure, then, that my power settings for both Suspend/ Sleep, Hibernate and Display (however Mint phrases these things) are set to Never. I'd want to make sure that unloading a driver and re-loading isn't buggering this whole mess up. I understand that "Never" putting your display or system to sleep/ suspend is not optimal but it might help try to isolate the problem.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
I'd make sure, then, that my power settings for both Suspend/ Sleep, Hibernate and Display (however Mint phrases these things) are set to Never. I'd want to make sure that unloading a driver and re-loading isn't buggering this whole mess up. I understand that "Never" putting your display or system to sleep/ suspend is not optimal but it might help try to isolate the problem.


I have suspend when inactive set to never, no screen saver, and the monitor set to turn off after 15 minutes. If tweaking the monitor settings itself didn't help I'll do as you suggested next.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
I understand that "Never" putting your display or system to sleep/ suspend is not optimal but it might help try to isolate the problem.

I take it power management has given you enough nightmares over the years, too.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
I understand that "Never" putting your display or system to sleep/ suspend is not optimal but it might help try to isolate the problem.

I take it power management has given you enough nightmares over the years, too.

nope, just BLACK outs...

P.S. i cannot thank you both (and a couple other 'nix gurus here on BITOG) for the wisdom/anti-headeache pills you give us over the years.

 

[Garak]

Thank you for your kind words. As for headache pills, you should see how impressed I was when some "tech" company installed power management on the Linux based security camera system at one of my businesses. That came in really handy when it would decide to sleep after 15 minutes of no user activity, particularly since it is never to actually [ihave[/i] any user activity. What thought process would ever occur that would possess someone to set up a system like that?

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Thank you for your kind words. As for headache pills, you should see how impressed I was when some "tech" company installed power management on the Linux based security camera system at one of my businesses. That came in really handy when it would decide to sleep after 15 minutes of no user activity, particularly since it is never to actually [ihave[/i] any user activity. What thought process would ever occur that would possess someone to set up a system like that?

isn't it obvious?
the devilish brain-washed guy who thought it is a good idea to overwrite the power-settings already set....
then go hide the settings 10 levels of options deep....

 

[demarpaint]

It happened again today. I left the machine for a while, had streaming news running and came back to a bluish/black screen. It's almost a black, but different than when the monitor is off and moving the mouse turns it on. When I see the monitor black and move the mouse the monitor comes on, when it is that dark bluish/black color it doesn't come on. Instead of forcing a reboot, I just unplugged the power to the monitor and plugged it back in and everything was fine, exactly the way I left it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
It happened again today. I left the machine for a while, had streaming news running and came back to a bluish/black screen.

I noticed when my Mint/Mate setup goes to shut the monitor down after a period of inactivity, it kind of sits like that, but comes back when I hit the mouse. It's like a period between the OS not sending anything to the screen, but before the monitor shuts itself down because of no signal or because power management tells it to shut down. It sits like that, I move the mouse, then the password screen comes up, and I'm back at my normal screen where I was before that happened.

I'm not the greatest hardware guy, so I'm going to be shooting in the dark a bit, but your problem does seem kind of odd. Basically, you get to that situation, and it won't start displaying again from moving the mouse? Does it still do nothing when you hit a key? The reason I ask is because I cannot wake up my computer with a mouse move, but I can with a key press, and then a mouse move to bring the password unlocker up.

Now, the power management is separate from the screen saver. Try disabling your screen saver and see what happens. My screen saver, just checked it now, is set to go to a blank screen after five minutes. But, the display is put to sleep under power management when inactive for 30 minutes.

pandus: There's nothing like an entire camera system just going down because some fool set the thing to do the power down thing. It's especially troublesome after a power outage, when no one is there to babysit. I love when techs don't understand the difference between setting up something for desktop use versus server use.