Bad o-ring on Carquest cartridge filter

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: jacky
do all cartridge filters come with an oring? I never owned a car that used them

Not all. The Mann filters I often buy don't come with one. They do come with the large o-ring that goes on top of the filter housing cap, and with a drain plug washer, but not with that small little o-ring that goes on the end of the oil filter housing rod.

As far as I recall, the Mahle equivalent doesn't come with one either...

 

[Sayjac]

This one 'looks' identical to the Beck Arnley cartridge posted HERE last month. Which as noted in the link appears identical to the fram CH10075 subsequently linked in that thread. And they all have the same COO. Those appear to come with replacement orings and crush washer.

With unknown fci and oring replacement interval, difficult 'for me' to find fault specifically with the cartridge or oring in this anecdote. My .02

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: jacky
do all cartridge filters come with an oring? I never owned a car that used them

Not all. The Mann filters I often buy don't come with one. They do come with the large o-ring that goes on top of the filter housing cap, and with a drain plug washer, but not with that small little o-ring that goes on the end of the oil filter housing rod.

As far as I recall, the Mahle equivalent doesn't come with one either...

Quattro: Thanks for the info.
The Mahle factory website calls for the OX 387D ECO model for this SUV, and the pictures at the Mahle site show both o-rings with the filter kit.

https://catalog.mahle-aftermarket.com/na/modules/mahleFilter/detail.xhtml?filterId=4111

Wix XP that I bought did have both o-rings, and I used both of them. "Regular" Wix comes with both o-rings, also, per pic at their site.

Mann and Hengst sites don't show ANY o-rings in their pics, so I can't say about them. May be just the big one, as you say.
So, if someone was using Mann or CQ filters for years, this small o-ring could be 5+ years old. Would explain the brittleness!

So, I guess I will be getting the Mahle filters in the future, and changing both o-rings. Glad I know that before I start assembling my "BITOG Stash" of filters for this engine!

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Originally Posted By: gilbertsta
I am not sure if this post is a joke or not. It doesn't look like an O-ring at all. It looks like two pcs of burnt macaroni. Maybe the mechanic was eating mac and cheese during the filter change? Who knows?

I wish it was a joke. See my post above. As QuattroPete pointed out, it appears that some manufacturers don't provide both o-rings with a filter. So this thing could have 50k miles on it for all I know.
It is a real o-ring. Comes with the Mahle and Wix filters:


And, yes, it literally crumbled into pieces when I tried to remove it. Super brittle. Big o-ring was not very pliable, but not brittle, so it was newer I guess.
I am "the mechanic", and wasn't eating M&C. Trying to cut down on carbs!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
So this thing could have 50k miles on it for all I know.

It sounds like whether the small o-ring is provided or not may vary by application. For my application, I don't think it's provided, even though if I look at my oil filter housing rod, there are actually two of them (see pic). Maybe they are not meant to be replaced? In which case, that's kind of scary knowing BMW's overall quality of various gaskets.

In my case, these little o-rings have never been changed, ever since I've owned the car. For all I know, they may still be factory o-rings: 101K miles, 15 years, and counting.

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
So this thing could have 50k miles on it for all I know.

It sounds like whether the small o-ring is provided or not may vary by application. For my application, I don't think it's provided, even though if I look at my oil filter housing rod, there are actually two of them (see pic). Maybe they are not meant to be replaced? In which case, that's kind of scary knowing BMW's overall quality of various gaskets.

In my case, these little o-rings have never been changed, ever since I've owned the car. For all I know, they may still be factory o-rings: 101K miles, 15 years, and counting.

Wow. That is strange. Same car manufacturer. Same filter manufacturer. One comes with all o-rings, the other doesn't.
How would a customer know if they are getting all new o-rings?
And how much can it cost to add them? A nickel at most?
Can you order the OEM o-rings separately? I just don't think soft rubber-type materials do well long-term in oil. But I am not an engineer.
I might come down with "BITOG Fever" obsessing about how much oil leaks past the o-rings.....

Thanks for the info. My stash for this vehicle will be all Mahle of Wix!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Can you order the OEM o-rings separately?

Yes. I suppose I should add it to my 'to do' list.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
So this thing could have 50k miles on it for all I know.

It sounds like whether the small o-ring is provided or not may vary by application. For my application, I don't think it's provided, even though if I look at my oil filter housing rod, there are actually two of them (see pic). Maybe they are not meant to be replaced? In which case, that's kind of scary knowing BMW's overall quality of various gaskets.

In my case, these little o-rings have never been changed, ever since I've owned the car. For all I know, they may still be factory o-rings: 101K miles, 15 years, and counting.

The white could be, likely is, high temp Nitrile. Looking up Nitrile rubber on wiki leads to a section describing HNBR, nitrile for high temp and it is white. That would explain why yours lasts.

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes

The white could be, likely is, high temp Nitrile. Looking up Nitrile rubber on wiki leads to a section describing HNBR, nitrile for high temp and it is white. That would explain why yours lasts.


This has turned out to be very educational.
I know that Hengst uses a white rubber on their o-rings. Probably the same stuff.
Kent Bergsma had a video where he thought Hengst used white to make it obvious that it was in place (or NOT in place). Could just be for the temp range.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
So this thing could have 50k miles on it for all I know.

It sounds like whether the small o-ring is provided or not may vary by application. For my application, I don't think it's provided, even though if I look at my oil filter housing rod, there are actually two of them (see pic). Maybe they are not meant to be replaced? In which case, that's kind of scary knowing BMW's overall quality of various gaskets.

In my case, these little o-rings have never been changed, ever since I've owned the car. For all I know, they may still be factory o-rings: 101K miles, 15 years, and counting.

The white could be, likely is, high temp Nitrile. Looking up Nitrile rubber on wiki leads to a section describing HNBR, nitrile for high temp and it is white. That would explain why yours lasts.

White?

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
So this thing could have 50k miles on it for all I know.

It sounds like whether the small o-ring is provided or not may vary by application. For my application, I don't think it's provided, even though if I look at my oil filter housing rod, there are actually two of them (see pic). Maybe they are not meant to be replaced? In which case, that's kind of scary knowing BMW's overall quality of various gaskets.

In my case, these little o-rings have never been changed, ever since I've owned the car. For all I know, they may still be factory o-rings: 101K miles, 15 years, and counting.

The white could be, likely is, high temp Nitrile. Looking up Nitrile rubber on wiki leads to a section describing HNBR, nitrile for high temp and it is white. That would explain why yours lasts.

White?


I thought the picture was of the two o-rings. What color are they?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Green.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Green.


You showed them white. Then asked "white?"

 

[Quattro Pete]

0
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Green.


You showed them white. Then asked "white?"

Where do you see white in my photo?

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
That o-ring is probably original. Most people don't change them.

That filter is in poor shape.

Experience with cartridges: OEM or Hengst, Mahle, or Mann aftermarket only.


Agree on the OEM(Mann)/Mahle/Hengst only!

Would love to know why people would not install an o-ring that came with the filter. It's not like you have to pay extra for it. Absolutely no cost. Amazing. O-ring hoarders??

Why replace a perfectly good o ring? You inspect it and if it needs to be replaced you replace it

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
That o-ring is probably original. Most people don't change them.

That filter is in poor shape.

Experience with cartridges: OEM or Hengst, Mahle, or Mann aftermarket only.


Agree on the OEM(Mann)/Mahle/Hengst only!

Would love to know why people would not install an o-ring that came with the filter. It's not like you have to pay extra for it. Absolutely no cost. Amazing. O-ring hoarders??

Why replace a perfectly good o ring? You inspect it and if it needs to be replaced you replace it


Why not replace it? New one comes with the filter.
My particular engine has a different filter than the pictures of the Mann and Mahle posted above. The ones for his engine don't come with a small o-ring. The filter for my engine DOES come with a small o-ring.
The Mahle, Mann, Wix, WIX XP, Fram paper, Fram Ultra, for this BMW engine all come with 2 o-rings.
Since it comes with the filter, why not change it? I see no reason to keep it on a shelf, or throw it away.

Now, if your engine uses a filter that doesn't give you the small o-ring(s), then I can see why people would leave the old one instead of special-ordering the o-ring at extra cost/hassle.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Now, if your engine uses a filter that doesn't give you the small o-ring(s), then I can see why people would leave the old one instead of special-ordering the o-ring at extra cost/hassle.

Digging some more into this, it appears the entire tip of that oil cap shaft sometimes breaks off on older cars. BMW plastics aren't known to last, just like their gaskets.

I think I might just get a whole new cap - it comes with those two tiny o-rings already installed.

Sorry for a little OT.

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
Now, if your engine uses a filter that doesn't give you the small o-ring(s), then I can see why people would leave the old one instead of special-ordering the o-ring at extra cost/hassle.

Digging some more into this, it appears the entire tip of that oil cap shaft sometimes breaks off on older cars. BMW plastics aren't known to last, just like their gaskets.

I think I might just get a whole new cap - it comes with those two tiny o-rings already installed.

Sorry for a little OT.


QP - No problem. Good to know.
I lucked out and one of our AAPs had a Mann for the X5. It also comes with 2 o-rings. Not sure why your model doesn't.
Found out that the Chevy dealer did the oil change using the Carquest just 600 miles ago. So it was really disturbing to have the o-ring disintegrate that quick(assuming they changed it) and for it to rupture like it did. They also used regular SN M1 5W-30 oil.

Sticking to strictly Mann (OEM) or Mahle from now on.

 

[SilverC6]

That's a typical failure for a FRAM AAP/CARQUEST cartridge filter in a Euro application.

FRAM obviously doesn't understand how to design these filters to avoid failure.

Never use one of these on a Euro application.

Always use Mahle or German Mann.

 

[IllinoisSparky]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6


Always use Mahle or German Mann.