Amsoil ASL 5w30, 9K, 04 Chevy Tahoe, 215K

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
263
Location
Texas
I still can't find where the silicon is coming from. As mentioned in all previous posts, we do get the occasional MAF code thrown. So far I've gone from K&N, to Wix, and even Amsoil air filters. I've also replaced the air box itself, cleaned the MAF multiple times, and gone through the entire intake tube looking for holes and blowing out/cleaning the inside. Still seeing high silicon and the occasional code for MAF being thrown.

Make/Model: GM 5.3L V-8
Vehicle: 2004 Chevy Tahoe

Code:


OIL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL

MILES IN USE 9,213 10,045 9,037 9,246 8,124 6,069

MILES ON UNIT 214,977 205,764 195,719 186,682 177,436 175,381

SAMPLE TAKEN 1/2/17 7/15/16 12/14/15 6/29/15 11/30/14 10/23/14

MAKE UP OIL 0 0 0 0 0 0



ALUMINUM 3 4 3 4 3 2

CHROMIUM 1 1 0 0 0 0

IRON 12 15 11 12 9 7

COPPER 13 11 12 10 12 10

LEAD 11 22 13 30 7 6

TIN 0 0 0 5 0 0

MOLYBDENUM 138 130 143 160 144 139

NICKEL 1 1 2 1 0 1

MANGANESE 0 0 1 0 0 0

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 1 2 4 4 0 0

BORON 39 42 36 61 45 53

SILICON 28 30 35 28 31 25

SODIUM 9 11 10 9 9 8

CALCIUM 3191 2928 3570 3461 3247 3475

MAGNESIUM 13 13 17 14 12 15

PHOSPHORUS 648 558 655 627 702 658

ZINC 748 628 773 800 801 767

BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0



SUS @ 210F 63.8 68.8 66.0 62.6 64.6 63.8

Visc @ 100C 11.29 12.64 11.88 10.94 11.51 11.29

Flashpoint 445 400 410 420 430 435

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Water % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Insolubles % 0.4 0.5 0.3 0.2 0.4 0.3

TBN 3.0 2.2 3.3 3.3 3.1 3.4


Blackstone Inc Comments:
There's half the amount of lead here that we saw back in July, suggesting the spike was temporary, just from something like a particle streak through a bearing. Other metals haven't really budged, or at least the changes are no greater than we expect to see from normal variation. The viscosity was able to stay within spec this time as well, and the TBN is about the same as usual at 3.0, which is a strong reading. With lead in better shape and everything else in order, we think you could go for 11K miles next time. Lead should stay low on the longer run.
 
since I dont see a report with silicon that is super low mixed in there, what makes you think its a problem? Blackstone didnt even mention it.
 
Blackstone may be hallowed ground on BITOG, but there are other test labs out there; and generally speaking, most test labs like to see Silicon at
Silicon is the 8th most common element in the universe and the second most abundant element in the earth's crust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon

This is not something anyone wants in their engine, and generally, the source(s) are the air intake.
 
Of course the silicon in the UOA is not elemental silicon floating around in the oil, unlike the iron which probably is. The silicon is being detected as part of a compound which makes a huge difference. If it is silicon dioxide (sand) then that is a problem, but if it is coming from polysiloxane (sealants) then it is harmless.

This is one of the problems with drawing conclusions based on a UOA with elemental analysis. You need to know where the silicon reading is coming from.
 
Agreed. If it were coming from sealants, I would have assumed it would come down since we purchased the vehicle over 100K miles ago. So far that hasn't been the trend. Coupled with the MAF sensor being triggered, my assumption is that its dirt getting into the system.
 
Besides sealants, anti-foam additives could be another source of silicon that's present in sample.
Obviously there is also dirt in there, but I would consider that as 'manageable'.
blush.gif
 
Originally Posted By: zeng
Besides sealants, anti-foam additives could be another source of silicon that's present in sample.
Obviously there is also dirt in there, but I would consider that as 'manageable'.
blush.gif



I too, thought about the silicon as the anti-foaming agent. I've seen some VOA's with as much as 10 ppm, although I couldn't cite anything in particular now. Maybe the Amsoil has a high silicon reading in VOA.

The silicon is consistently high, but the wear metals are consistently low. If all of that silicon was abrasive, I think the aluminum (especially) would be way up from those average readings.
 
If the intake is clean and filter is good. The Trend shows it to be pretty normal and like mentioned silicone isn't necessarily dirt coming in. Take it to dealer and get odb2 code looked at and fixed and go from there.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Of course the silicon in the UOA is not elemental silicon floating around in the oil, unlike the iron which probably is. The silicon is being detected as part of a compound which makes a huge difference. If it is silicon dioxide (sand) then that is a problem, but if it is coming from polysiloxane (sealants) then it is harmless.

This is one of the problems with drawing conclusions based on a UOA with elemental analysis. You need to know where the silicon reading is coming from.


The obvious situation here is that the OP posted not one but six UOA which all show high (although not alarmingly high) silicon counts over a period of time. How do sealants do that?

My specific experience here is that I also run Amsoil SS 5W30 in 3 vehicles and have done VOA on this oil. It does not have high silicon in the VOA, or anti-foam additives that raise the silicon counts and I have seven years of UOA records with this oil.

To the OP: I empathize with your frustration. I would call Blackstone and discuss this.
 
She wants to keep this one for a while, and the trend of metals is higher than what I'd like to see. I'm going to buy a cold air intake tonight that replaces all of the tubing as well and hopefully start to see a trend of lower silicon/mile...
 
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2185226
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3103759
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3797278/1/Royal_Purple_5W30_2008_Silvera
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2270184/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3089261

From my prospective I see a lot of worry about nothing. Sorry the trend I see your SILICON PPM is around 3-8 ppm per thousand miles. I just do not understand the logic of chasing under 10ppm of SILICON when there is not trend of an uptake of wear metals. Try stepping up a grade if you do not have stash of ASL 5W30. If you do use it up and don't worry.
 
Idea: I wonder if you have a slight leak in your intake. It's a dry manifold, very easy to remove. Having removed and LS intake many times, I would say it is easy to not get a perfect re-seal, pretty easy for a little dirt to get in the way. Not enough to throw a real code though. You could also grease all the air intake connections. I've done that before because the stock connections just don't seem that great on certain models.
 
Originally Posted By: dhellman12
I still can't find where the silicon is coming from. As mentioned in all previous posts, we do get the occasional MAF code thrown. So far I've gone from K&N, to Wix, and even Amsoil air filters. I've also replaced the air box itself, cleaned the MAF multiple times, and gone through the entire intake tube looking for holes and blowing out/cleaning the inside. Still seeing high silicon and the occasional code for MAF being thrown.

Make/Model: GM 5.3L V-8
Vehicle: 2004 Chevy Tahoe

Code:


OIL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL Ams ASL

MILES IN USE 9,213 10,045 9,037 9,246 8,124 6,069

MILES ON UNIT 214,977 205,764 195,719 186,682 177,436 175,381

SAMPLE TAKEN 1/2/17 7/15/16 12/14/15 6/29/15 11/30/14 10/23/14

MAKE UP OIL 0 0 0 0 0 0



ALUMINUM 3 4 3 4 3 2

CHROMIUM 1 1 0 0 0 0

IRON 12 15 11 12 9 7

COPPER 13 11 12 10 12 10

LEAD 11 22 13 30 7 6

TIN 0 0 0 5 0 0

MOLYBDENUM 138 130 143 160 144 139

NICKEL 1 1 2 1 0 1

MANGANESE 0 0 1 0 0 0

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 1 2 4 4 0 0

BORON 39 42 36 61 45 53

SILICON 28 30 35 28 31 25

SODIUM 9 11 10 9 9 8

CALCIUM 3191 2928 3570 3461 3247 3475

MAGNESIUM 13 13 17 14 12 15

PHOSPHORUS 648 558 655 627 702 658

ZINC 748 628 773 800 801 767

BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0



SUS @ 210F 63.8 68.8 66.0 62.6 64.6 63.8

Visc @ 100C 11.29 12.64 11.88 10.94 11.51 11.29

Flashpoint 445 400 410 420 430 435

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Water % 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

Insolubles % 0.4 0.5 0.3 0.2 0.4 0.3

TBN 3.0 2.2 3.3 3.3 3.1 3.4


Blackstone Inc Comments:
There's half the amount of lead here that we saw back in July, suggesting the spike was temporary, just from something like a particle streak through a bearing. Other metals haven't really budged, or at least the changes are no greater than we expect to see from normal variation. The viscosity was able to stay within spec this time as well, and the TBN is about the same as usual at 3.0, which is a strong reading. With lead in better shape and everything else in order, we think you could go for 11K miles next time. Lead should stay low on the longer run.


Hey have you looked at other vacuum line? Pcv, brake booster etc? Could be leaking unmetered air into the intake?
 
Will check the rest of the hoses to see. Installed a new air intake system from Spectre performance last night. Hopefully that shows some improved trends in silicon during the next oil change, otherwise it probably wasn't coming from the old air system...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top