BMW Twin Power Turbo - 0W-20 LL-14+

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I was just curious what you guys know on details on this oil having hard time finding much on it.
This is what I know Cert's:
ll-14+
SN

Looking for what group it's considered and what base oil it uses, other certifications?
 
Originally Posted By: vronline
Did you try the Euro forum?


We'll be honest never knew about euro section or ventured in that section but I did just search it and they have no information on it either.
 
Originally Posted By: vronline
I didn't read through this whole discussion, but here's what I found with Search (which I don't think is very good)... At least there's a mention of the oil you're asking about.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4162922/1


That actually already gave me some insight that BMW oil comparison picture shows it's pens pure plus based oil. With LL-14+ Cert at least that's how I take It.
 
Going by the LL14 performance level, those euro specs are tougher than dexos1, so this is a great oil. Pennzoil-Shell is the supplier, good reputation. Likely the best 0w20 out there.
 
My first post on BITOG after using the blog as a valuable resource for many years.....

I own a 2016 340i Xdrive and it's what I've used for the car's first two changes, after buying the car new last March. Absolutely no problems so far. However...

That BMW hasn't published a data sheet for its oils, including the 0W-20 LL 14 FE, troubles me. In fact, the company's marketing is so purposely vague that I'm not even certain it's 100% Group 3 synthetic. BMW does the same thing with its motorcycle oil, Advantec Pro. It's marketed as a synthetic but is actually a semi-synthetic.

Several people have posted on various BMW blogs, including myself, questioning whether BMW oil is rebranded Pennzoil Platinum (PP) and Ultra Platinum (PU). BMW has a "silber" line and a "gold" line, and the 0W-20 LL FE is in the gold category. So, perhaps the silver is PP and the gold is PU? We don't know. But here's where it gets interesting...

Even though the evidence has us believing BMW is rebranded Pennzoil or some other Shell proprietary blend (Helix?), none of the Shell oil (including PP and PU) offerings has received the LL14 FE certification/approval -- even though Shell/Pennzoil has begun marketing itself as BMW's recommended oil. Think about that! Where does that leave owners of BMW cars with the new B58 engine, which purportedly requires 0W-20 LL14 FE oil?

At great risk of sounding like a cynical conspiracy theorist, I suspect that a lot of this is attributable to agreements between folks in marketing and accounting in BMW and Shell -- engineers have little to do with this confusion. BMW likely wants to depict its branded oil as unique unto itself and necessary for its newer technologically advanced engines like the B58.

I'm currently in the process of researching and investigating and I'll share developments as they come. In the meantime, I've decided to look for an alternative oil for the next change. Right now I'm considering Liqui Moly 4605, Red Line 5W-30, or Castrol 0W-40 European Blend. As long as it meets LL-01 and ACEA B3/B4, I'm fine with it.

If you want, you can check out my YouTube video (slide show) of the first change, using a search like "Oil Change BMW 340i XDrive." If you don't like the band Rush, turn down your volume.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Even though the evidence has us believing BMW is rebranded Pennzoil or some other Shell proprietary blend (Helix?), none of the Shell oil (including PP and PU) offerings has received the LL14 FE certification/approval -- even though Shell/Pennzoil has begun marketing itself as BMW's recommended oil. Think about that! Where does that leave owners of BMW cars with the new B58 engine, which purportedly requires 0W-20 LL14 FE oil?

It leaves such motorists with doing what they always should be doing, and that's being cautious with specifications. It could very well be a case where they're the same oil. Or, it could be a case whether one might be accidentally purchasing an ILSAC 5w-30 versus their A3/B4 5w-30, which isn't exactly interchangeable. If LL-14+ 0w-20 oils gain a lot of traction in the upcoming years, then we'll see more of them on the shelves from other oil companies. And, if LL-14+ is something that can be slapped on just about any 0w-20 out there, it'll happen.
 
The real world of certifications in the oil industry would make for an interesting article. I'm assuming there are some out there, even if in trade journals. I'm curious to know the truth as to just how involved each company's marketing division is as opposed to engineering. I'd also be interested in researching how this implicates antitrust and consumer protection laws, vis-a-vis a particular auto maker, which has its own certifications, branding its own oil and limiting its certification to its own oil, and then claiming that a model should use only "X" certified oil (its own). That sounds a lot like unfair competition of the early 90s Microsoft variety.
 
Withholding a certification from a competitor...
A parent company and an auto maker partner conspiring to use the same oil for two different branded oil, but limiting certification to one and not the other....
Either scenario very possibly runs afoul of antitrust laws and other FTC regs.
Yes, the FTC....
I hope a smarmy cute n clever BMW or Shell executive reads this.
The Sherman Act is a real %#*!#%
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Withholding a certification from a competitor...
A parent company and an auto maker partner conspiring to use the same oil for two different branded oil, but limiting certification to one and not the other....
Either scenario very possibly runs afoul of antitrust laws and other FTC regs.
Yes, the FTC....
I hope a smarmy cute n clever BMW or Shell executive reads this.
The Sherman Act is a real %#*!#%


Despite saying you didn't want to, you are starting to sound like a "cynical conspiracy theorist".

From what vantage point are you really coming from? Are you somehow a promoter of some uncertified oil?
 
Those of you with B48 and B58 do not worry! Those engines are not constructed specifically for 0W20, but LL-01.
Reason why BMW is bringing LL-14 FE, is FE designation.
1. Fleet MPG! LL-14FE will help BMW to meet fleet MPG requirements.
2. X5 40e and new 530e! Due to turbo engines running these hybrid vehicles, BMW decided that 0W20 oils will provide better overall engine protection then LL-01. Reason is that most X5's on the U.S. market are grocery getters. There is power demand from these engines while oil is still cold, especially in hybrid version.
3. Lower speeds in the U.S. also are favorable to this oil.
4. Typical new owner of BMW is leasing a car, so with above mentioned variables BMW is pushing this oil to reduce wear.

That being said, some who uses BMW the way they should be (HWY, speed, pushing car) LL-01 is the only oil to go with.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Those of you with B48 and B58 do not worry! Those engines are not constructed specifically for 0W20, but LL-01.
Reason why BMW is bringing LL-14 FE, is FE designation.
1. Fleet MPG! LL-14FE will help BMW to meet fleet MPG requirements.
2. X5 40e and new 530e! Due to turbo engines running these hybrid vehicles, BMW decided that 0W20 oils will provide better overall engine protection then LL-01. Reason is that most X5's on the U.S. market are grocery getters. There is power demand from these engines while oil is still cold, especially in hybrid version.
3. Lower speeds in the U.S. also are favorable to this oil.
4. Typical new owner of BMW is leasing a car, so with above mentioned variables BMW is pushing this oil to reduce wear.

That being said, some who uses BMW the way they should be (HWY, speed, pushing car) LL-01 is the only oil to go with.


Excellent stuff right there. Thank you sir!
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
My first post on BITOG after using the blog as a valuable resource for many years.....

I own a 2016 340i Xdrive and it's what I've used for the car's first two changes, after buying the car new last March. Absolutely no problems so far. However...

That BMW hasn't published a data sheet for its oils, including the 0W-20 LL 14 FE, troubles me. In fact, the company's marketing is so purposely vague that I'm not even certain it's 100% Group 3 synthetic. BMW does the same thing with its motorcycle oil, Advantec Pro. It's marketed as a synthetic but is actually a semi-synthetic.

Several people have posted on various BMW blogs, including myself, questioning whether BMW oil is rebranded Pennzoil Platinum (PP) and Ultra Platinum (PU). BMW has a "silber" line and a "gold" line, and the 0W-20 LL FE is in the gold category. So, perhaps the silver is PP and the gold is PU? We don't know. But here's where it gets interesting...

Even though the evidence has us believing BMW is rebranded Pennzoil or some other Shell proprietary blend (Helix?), none of the Shell oil (including PP and PU) offerings has received the LL14 FE certification/approval -- even though Shell/Pennzoil has begun marketing itself as BMW's recommended oil. Think about that! Where does that leave owners of BMW cars with the new B58 engine, which purportedly requires 0W-20 LL14 FE oil?

At great risk of sounding like a cynical conspiracy theorist, I suspect that a lot of this is attributable to agreements between folks in marketing and accounting in BMW and Shell -- engineers have little to do with this confusion. BMW likely wants to depict its branded oil as unique unto itself and necessary for its newer technologically advanced engines like the B58.

I'm currently in the process of researching and investigating and I'll share developments as they come. In the meantime, I've decided to look for an alternative oil for the next change. Right now I'm considering Liqui Moly 4605, Red Line 5W-30, or Castrol 0W-40 European Blend. As long as it meets LL-01 and ACEA B3/B4, I'm fine with it.

If you want, you can check out my YouTube video (slide show) of the first change, using a search like "Oil Change BMW 340i XDrive." If you don't like the band Rush, turn down your volume.

So you are worried about certification but you are considering using Redline 5W30?
As for Pennzoil. Shell has Helix LL-14Fe. There are no enough customers in the U.S. for Pennzoil to sell LL-14FE in let's say Wal Mart. Those are new engines available here, so it will be some time before you can find LL-14FE in auto parts stores or Wal MArt.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Perhaps it might be easier if I ask what didn't go over your head...


You were the one who said you didn't want to be a "cynical conspiracy theorist" yet you go on to make several posts that say just the opposite.

So that Redline, does it carry Longlife-01 as you say it does? Or is that just a "cute n clever" designation? How about the Liqui Moly 4605 you list? That's LL-01 certified? How about ACEA B3/B4 (is that even a valid spec)? And the Castrol 0W-40, that's a blend?

Stuff seems to be flying all over people's heads.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Withholding a certification from a competitor...

Where are we seeing this, though?

I never said it necessarily was happening. I identified it as a scenario, and posited that, if it was happening, then it quite likely runs afoul of antitrust laws like the Sherman Act and other FTC rules. However, circumstantial evidence gives rise to reasonable speculation that such is the case. Again, all of the evidence and circumstances lead us to reasonably believe that BMW's branded oil is Shell oil, yet none of Shell's oil has received the LL14FE certification, even though Shell is the supplier and manufacturer of BMW's branded oil. I don't think it's unreasonable to consider this a bit odd.
 
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