Used and abused, your input is appreciated

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Below I'm going to post samples from two separate semi trucks. The overall goal is extended oil changes, learning about condition of the older motor, and developing a baseline before installing amsoil bypass, and finding out how and what oil works for our application.

Both trucks run the same short 20mi route , we run the trucks very hard in extremely dusty conditions (paper ash).
The first truck has mystik 15-50 with 10k miles on the oil,and 1,035,000 on the detroit 14l non egr engine and 100k on new rod and main bearings,and oil pump.

The,2nd truck has 208k on the engine (factory reman glider) detroit 12.7l and has 37k miles on rotella t6 syn at time of sample.


Mystic 15-50 10k
Alum 3
Chrom 1
Iron 13
Copper 1
Lead 1
Tin 2
Moly 41
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 2
Boron 5
Silicon 3
Sodium 4
Calcium 1048
Magnesium,748
Phosphorus 1052
Zinc 1253
Barium 0
Sus visc 86.3 mystik viscid lube
Flashpoint 445
Fuel Antifreeze 0
Water 0
Insoluble .3%
Tbn. 6.1




25k mystik /38 k rotella
Alum. 2 4
Chromium.3 3
Iron. 52 75
Copper. 2 3
Lead. 11 15
Tin. 3 2
Moly. 33 48
Nickel. 1
Manganese. 1
Silver. 0
Titanium. 0
Potassium. 24 7
Boron. 11
Silicon. 6 4
Sodium. 8 8
Calcium. 785
Magnesium. 815
Phos. 725
Zinc. 967
Barium. 0
Sus visc lucas96 84.9
Flashpoint. 400
Fuel. 1.0
Antifreeze. 0
Water. 0
Insolubles. .4
Tbn. 2.5



Those samples are from 2 different labs in 2 different oils on consecutive oc's. Blackstones notes said tbn was fine but recommended changing oil bc of the lead. If you notice the 2nd sample went 30% more miles with 30% more iron and lead. On the 37k mile t6 I changed the filters at 19k,31k and 37k sample. Topped off with 1.5 -2 gallons each filter swap. I have not changed it yet , what do yall think, I'm trying to learn what I can safely extend my oci to.

One final question, amsoil schaeffer or stick with the t6

Thanks ,yall are a wealth of info!!!!!!!
 
The first test was at a speedco, so I'm sure that test sucked, but interesting anyways
 
I just called the company that builds our reman engines, they told me I need to pull the oil pan off and check the bearings, he told me I would certainly be down in the copper. He doesn't read oil samples he doesn't have any data to go on, and that no matter what oil I run I need to back it down to 15,000 miles, and that no matter what engine or additional filtration or oil is available Detroit only recommends 15,000 change intervals, remind me not to call that guy again.

In other news when I do change out the oil on both trucks they are also getting Donaldson blue long life synthetic oil filters
 
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One more thing to add Detroit oil condemnation number 150ppm fe and 30ppm p b per bitog, how do condemnation numbers play into longevity?
 
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Originally Posted By: NStuart
I just called the company that builds our reman engines, they told me I need to pull the oil pan off and check the bearings, he told me I would certainly be down in the copper. He doesn't read oil samples he doesn't have any data to go on, and that no matter what oil I run I need to back it down to 15,000 miles, and that no matter what engine or additional filtration or oil is available Detroit only recommends 15,000 change intervals, remind me not to call that guy again.

In other news when I do change out the oil on both trucks they are also getting Donaldson blue long life synthetic oil filters
Why? Why Amsoil? Why 5w oil?Running "long life" oil in a short life useage.
 
The first sample looks fine; good low wear for 10k miles. I'd continue to run and sample at set intervals.

The second sample isn't "bad", but the Fe is approaching a condemnation point, and the Pb is higher than a pleasing point. I'd suggest an OCI, but also see if you can ascertain the cause of the elevated metals. With two different lubes, you've seen some elevated levels. Time to look for a root cause. I'm not trying to alarm you; just caution you. Don't panic, just investigate.
 
Just to be clear, the "condemnation limit" would be expressed in PPM per hour or mile, correct? And it applies to the engine, not the oil? Virtually no amount of metal in the oil that shows up in an ICP analysis would be detrimental to the engine, correct?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Just to be clear, the "condemnation limit" would be expressed in PPM per hour or mile, correct? And it applies to the engine, not the oil? Virtually no amount of metal in the oil that shows up in an ICP analysis would be detrimental to the engine, correct?


I believe that Detroit words it as "warning levels" or maybe warning limits? The warning levels given in parts per million are for a standard oci, which in the case of a Series 60 is 15K miles. This is my understanding, not necessarily what Detroit means.

I think iron is listed as 150 or 200 ppm as a warning. While copper,lead and aluminum are 30ppm for warnings (again speaking of the series 60). My thought is that if you run a standard oci and see levels exceeding any of those, then you probably have something going wrong in the engine. Otherwise, continue to sample and monitor.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. In 18 years of truck ownership, I've been fortunate enough to have trouble free engines, and have no experience in diagnosing engine problems. Nor have I ever run super extended ocI's while working with an OEM or oil company for guidance.

Edit-I've had problems with injectors/injector cups and thus fuel dilution. Just never a problem with the engine internals.
 
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Originally Posted By: dustyroads
I think iron is listed as 150 or 200 ppm as a warning. While copper,lead and aluminum are 30ppm for warnings (again speaking of the series 60). My thought is that if you run a standard oci and see levels exceeding any of those, then you probably have something going wrong in the engine. Otherwise, continue to sample and monitor.


That's what I would guess, the high readings mean a defect or issue with the engine. I've seen people here comment that the high readings mean the oil is condemned, which I don't believe is correct.
 
NStuart, could you list the viscosity at 100C (KV100) to complete the info.

I've never run a truck locally, so I can't offer you much. I would only advise you to pick a lab and stick with it. You should use one that provides soot %, as that is a concern and another condemnation point. There are plenty of good labs, but a good lab with very reasonable cost is ALS Tribology. You can get NAPA labeled kits from any NAPA dealer, and they go to ALS in Atlanta. Last I knew, their kits were about $14.00 or so.

I would try to pick an oil based on accessibility and overall cost. Overall cost being a combination of purchase price and the longevity you think can be achieved with it. Don't overlook the basic 15W40 oils, especially when using a good bypass filter. They are far better and longer lasting (TBN) than given credit for. I used to get Castrol Hypuron synblend (now called Vecton) at Fleetpride (a national truck parts distributor) for a very reasonable price. That oil had amazing TBN retention. The new CK-4 oils in general, are made to maintain good oil properties for longer intervals than previous generations.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Just to be clear, the "condemnation limit" would be expressed in PPM per hour or mile, correct? And it applies to the engine, not the oil? Virtually no amount of metal in the oil that shows up in an ICP analysis would be detrimental to the engine, correct?


The condemnation limit is any characteristic measured that has an established magnitude limit. In this case I was referring to the iron count.

I did, however, make a mistake; I thought that the DD FE limit was 100ppm.
Using this guide:
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Publications/Documents/UsedOil%5C2008020.pdf (page 16)
I see that it was Cummins that has a 100ppm limit, whereas DD has a 150ppm limit for Fe.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The condemnation limit is any characteristic measured that has an established magnitude limit. In this case I was referring to the iron count.

I did, however, make a mistake; I thought that the DD FE limit was 100ppm.
Using this guide:
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Publications/Documents/UsedOil%5C2008020.pdf (page 16)
I see that it was Cummins that has a 100ppm limit, whereas DD has a 150ppm limit for Fe.


Right I get that. But it's for the engine, not the oil.
 
100c was 16.73
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
NStuart, could you list the viscosity at 100C (KV100) to complete the info.

I've never run a truck locally, so I can't offer you much. I would only advise you to pick a lab and stick with it. You should use one that provides soot %, as that is a concern and another condemnation point. There are plenty of good labs, but a good lab with very reasonable cost is ALS Tribology. You can get NAPA labeled kits from any NAPA dealer, and they go to ALS in Atlanta. Last I knew, their kits were about $14.00 or so.

I would try to pick an oil based on accessibility and overall cost. Overall cost being a combination of purchase price and the longevity you think can be achieved with it. Don't overlook the basic 15W40 oils, especially when using a good bypass filter. They are far better and longer lasting (TBN) than given credit for. I used to get Castrol Hypuron synblend (now called Vecton) at Fleetpride (a national truck parts distributor) for a very reasonable price. That oil had amazing TBN retention. The new CK-4 oils in general, are made to maintain good oil properties for longer intervals than previous generations.
 
I just spun on new filters when I sent the samples out and added 1.75 gallons to top off. Am I correct in saying that the added (or removed) oil will slightly lower the wear metals? I'm going to run it another 0-5k miles and change it while sending another sample. 5K is 5 weeks, this will allow me to put a bypass kit together and get good oil ready to go. I guess you could say this truck in the second sample is part of a family partnership and I was given the go ahead of upgraded filters, bypass, and "botique oil"

And yes 150 ppm fe and 30 pm pb is Detroit's condemnation numbers
 
Yes, it dilutes the concentration. How much depends on the quantity (percentage) of make-up oil that is added, and when it was added during the interval.
 
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